Guest av1 Posted July 22, 2016 Posted July 22, 2016 4 hours ago, kurtsimonw said: It takes more balls to appoint an Allerdyce than a Capello Agreed. I'd also add that Sam isn't a yes man, another welcome change for the numpties at the FA.
theboyangel Posted July 23, 2016 Posted July 23, 2016 It's a sad indictment of English management if Sam is the best on offer. However, I'm not disappointed with this appointment. I just hope he doesn't become an FA lapdog, pressured into selecting the players that the sponsors want. Also, I hope he selects a new Captain as Rooney's day is done for me Internationally (as a starter definitely)
theboyangel Posted July 24, 2016 Posted July 24, 2016 (edited) 18 minutes ago, PaulC said: Nothing changed, Rooney stays as captain. Poor move IMO. Shoe-horned into midfield by Hodgson as we had better striker options internationally but is going to be playing as a striker for ManUre this season. We need to start afresh - build the team around the younger players like Kane, Alli, Dier, Forster, Butland, Rashford etc. It's time for the old guard to go and we need to be more progressive than sentimental in our outlook. Edited July 24, 2016 by theboyangel
VillaChris Posted July 24, 2016 Posted July 24, 2016 On 7/22/2016 at 18:05, Mantis said: Whether you think it's a good appointment or not, I fail to see how the FA appointing him took balls. If the FA had balls they'd drop the ridiculous English manager requirement. They've done it twice already to limited success. I think the FA are right in sticking with domestic appoinment for this moment in time....England are in a state of confusion atm so need to go back to developing basic system and style of play, Sam's managed in this league for years and years so knows all this. Someone coming abroad with limited knowledge of all this wouldn't work, maybe in two years. If it was that easy Capello would've been a great success seeing as he's been one of the best club managers in last 30 years but he didn't just get it. 1
Xela Posted July 24, 2016 Posted July 24, 2016 I don't think Fat Sam was ever going to jettison Rooney from the squad straight away. McClaren tried to make a bold move like that and bin Beckham and it blew up in his face. Plus Sam has a good record of getting a last hurrah out of experienced players. We still need experience - the young players like Dier, Ali, Kane, etc might be talented but they lack big match nous - don't forget they formed the nucleus of a Spurs side that came third in a two horse race! Someones you need the old guard there.
VillaChris Posted July 24, 2016 Posted July 24, 2016 Rooney needs to be played as a striker though and there are simply better around. I would've taken him out of the squad but I suppose a concession is he's now a squad player as I don't see him being an automatic starter over next two seasons. Age and he simply isn't that good anymore, certainly not as a central midfielder which was a laughable gamble by Woy to shoehorn him in.
Mantis Posted July 25, 2016 Posted July 25, 2016 23 hours ago, VillaChris said: They've done it twice already to limited success. I think the FA are right in sticking with domestic appoinment for this moment in time....England are in a state of confusion atm so need to go back to developing basic system and style of play, Sam's managed in this league for years and years so knows all this. Someone coming abroad with limited knowledge of all this wouldn't work, maybe in two years. If it was that easy Capello would've been a great success seeing as he's been one of the best club managers in last 30 years but he didn't just get it. I never said it was easy, just that it's dumb to only consider English managers.
VillaChris Posted July 25, 2016 Posted July 25, 2016 (edited) 6 hours ago, Mantis said: I never said it was easy, just that it's dumb to only consider English managers. International managers are a strange beast. You look at the main nations and managers over the last few years...Gerardo Martino, Dunga, Deschamps (could even go back to Domenech years back), Joachim Low, Marc Wilmots etc and none of them have done anything in european club football really e.g. Martino didn't win anything in his season at Barca did he? Spain just appointed Lopetegui who is nowhere near the best Spainish manager. Now you could say Conte was and Italy just replaced him with Ventura who's had many clubs in Italy but never really won anything. It's more a combination of things, does the person appointed get the players and the style of football it wants? Capello was a brilliant manager but didn't have a clue on any of that. Other national teams appoint their under 21 coach if they want to start a new cycle with young players although given it's Southgate I'd pass. What I'm trying to say is imo it's too simplistic to say get Guardiola or Mourinho in and England would be winning world cups no problem. Otherwise why don't their actual countries try to appoint them? Of course England quite rare in that they actually pay their international manager a very good wage which is certainly not the case in other countries. Personally I think the national team manager should be from his own country anyway. Edited July 25, 2016 by VillaChris
Mantis Posted July 25, 2016 Posted July 25, 2016 2 minutes ago, VillaChris said: International managers are a strange beast. You look at the main nations and managers over the last few years...Gerardo Martino, Dunga, Deschamps (could even go back to Domenech years back), Joachim Low, Marc Wilmots etc and none of them have done anything in european club football really e.g. Martino didn't win anything in his season at Barca did he? Spain just appointed Lopetegui who is nowhere near the best Spainish manager. Now you could say Conte was and Italy just replaced him with Ventura who's had many clubs in Italy but never really won anything. It's more a combination of things, does the person appointed get the players and the style of football it wants? Capello was a brilliant manager but didn't have a clue on any of that. Other national teams appoint their under 21 coach if they want to start a new cycle with young players although given it's Southgate I'd pass. What I'm trying to say is imo it's too simplistic to say get Guardiola or Mourinho in and England would be winning world cups no problem. Otherwise why don't their actual countries try to appoint them? Of course England quite rare in that they actually pay their international manager a very good wage which is certainly not the case in other countries. Personally I think the national team manager should be from his own country anyway. I agree, but that wasn't what I was saying at all.
Xela Posted July 25, 2016 Posted July 25, 2016 20 minutes ago, VillaChris said: Personally I think the national team manager should be from his own country anyway. Me too. Not through any xenophobic reasons, I just think that English managers need a grail to aim for and as none of the top club teams will ever seemingly employ a English (or British) manager again, the national team is something to aspire to. Redknapp should have got the job last time but he wasn't a 'FA man' but i'm glad to see they've took a chance on Allardyce 2
VillaChris Posted July 25, 2016 Posted July 25, 2016 http://www.skysports.com/football/news/12016/10512110/sam-allardyces-first-england-xi-predicted-by-stuart-pearce Quote Who will new England manager Sam Allardyce pick in his first line-up? Sky Sports pundit Stuart Pearce has selected the side he thinks the new boss will select. Allardyce, who was confirmed in his role as England head coach on Friday, kicks off his competitive tenure in charge of the national team with a trip to take on Slovakia in World Cup qualifying on September 4. Pearce.... Someone tell the man Welbeck is injured for a start until January....also just realised he put Terry in that line up. Even worse than the euros team.
meme Posted July 26, 2016 Posted July 26, 2016 We can't really call him 'Big Sam' when we compare him to Flabby... Drat. Any new nicknames?
villa4europe Posted July 26, 2016 Posted July 26, 2016 anyone know the reason he's cancelled the croatia friendly? hoping its because its a pointless money spinning friendly that he'd rather have spent time simply putting the squad through its paces he's said some interesting stuff, he's said some guff that they all say i liked him acknowledging the lack of english managers in the prem and the suggestion that people are welcome to come join training camps, for some reason i do think that he'll be popular and know the english managers quite well, i think his relationship with howe and dyche will be far far better than what previous managers had with their equivalents
kurtsimonw Posted July 26, 2016 Posted July 26, 2016 29 minutes ago, villa4europe said: anyone know the reason he's cancelled the croatia friendly? hoping its because its a pointless money spinning friendly that he'd rather have spent time simply putting the squad through its paces I hope there's a good reason as friendlies are hugely important IMO. Bringing new players in to the squad and also finding what works, what doesn't and so on. Can't risk that in actual competitive games for the most part. Unless it's against the likes of San Marino, when you learn nothing anyway.
villa4europe Posted July 26, 2016 Posted July 26, 2016 The games was meant to be 3 days before the first qualifier, assuming it's because he wants to spend more time training and watching them and keeping them fit rather than a pointless game followed by a rest day followed by travelling friendlies are important in general, the game vs Portugal before the euros wasn't, the Holland game after the Germany game wasn't, playing a game before the first qualifier isn't, hopefully he's identified that if the team is together for 5 days or whatever it is the FA approach of money spinning reputation garnering hand shakes all round 2 friendlies isn't the best way to do it, especially seeing as the heads drop so badly in the 2nd game, 5 days training and 1 friendly might be a better approach
rodders0223 Posted July 27, 2016 Posted July 27, 2016 I don't think Allardyce is stupid enough to bring Terry back into the fold. I am tired of pundits talking about it already. 1 . He is 86 years old. 2 . He was utterly abysmal last year, shot to bits. 3 . He is a word removed. 1
villa4europe Posted July 27, 2016 Posted July 27, 2016 Chelsea have kept him on as a mascot, he'll do well to make 20 starts this season
tonyh29 Posted July 27, 2016 Posted July 27, 2016 Long as he's not obsessed with average over rated Spurs players he gets my vote. it won't be inspiring stuff but as Portugal showed you don't have to be that way to win things
HanoiVillan Posted July 27, 2016 Posted July 27, 2016 2 hours ago, rodders0223 said: I don't think Allardyce is stupid enough to bring Terry back into the fold. I am tired of pundits talking about it already. 1 . He is 86 years old. 2 . He was utterly abysmal last year, shot to bits. 3 . He is a word removed. It's certainly indicative of the quality of punditry in this country.
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