Tommy Elphick

[Stevo985]

3 hours ago, DaveAV1 said:

These players are undoubtedly struggling this season, however that in my opinion is largely due to a totally different style of play. When we were set up more defensively, they had more help around them, which is probably why a number of them will be replaced. 

Well I mean that's basically my point.

Bruce set teams up that made it easier for defenders to play well. As you've said.

And Elphick was still crap (imo)

[DaveAV1]

1 minute ago, Stevo985 said:

Well I mean that's basically my point.

Bruce set teams up that made it easier for defenders to play well. As you've said.

And Elphick was still crap (imo)

In my opinion too Stevo. 

[TheStagMan]

2 hours ago, TRO said:

Listen, whether you like it or not....He secured 24 wins last season....and still failed to get us up...but you cannot just dismiss that as some kind of inconvenience to your stance...it wasn't complete, we all know that, as a result, we had too few committed to attack, the trick now is to get a balance that's gives us both

so you didn't like the football, neither did I, but its still a hell of a haul...we will do well to equal it this season.

He hasn't left a mess, he has left area's of weakness, lets put perspective in to the argument....just remember, he has a completely different style to the current manager.....If you care to check back on some of the posts, some of us said we deploy too may players to defensive duties, they are not as good as we think they are in defence....and they aren't.

John Terry masked over a lot.

I agree, Dean needs a few windows and then we can appraise him properly....as for blame, its a negative for me, I am not looking to blame anyone, I'm looking to praise success.

I am not looking for fault with Dean Smith, I am looking for success, so to hell with windows and pre seasons, lets just get behind him.

 

Hasn't left us a mess? Come on TRO....

 

OK...24 wins last season..... and still failed miserably in the play offs, with his own team after three transfer windows and a pre season. Then after another transfer window and pre season how many games did we win under him this season???? His shit performances this season are why we will struggle to match that tally this season.

By mess, i am talking about the divisions in the fans (people STILL defending him WTF?), pathetic league position (when Smith came in) after an "easy" run of games) and some great players like Tammy and McGinn - both of whom, together with Tuanzebe look far better players under Smith.

He was a shit manager for Aston Villa, and I would suggest that any number of other managers could have done just as "good" a job as he did.

 

As for your last point of course we are behind Smith. He is doing an amazing job with one hand tied behind his back with what he inherited...... case in point, in the same number of games as Bruce this season, with the same group of players, we have conceeded less against better teams..... so much for Bruce being a master of defence eh?

Smith will absolutely get a free run from me (as Bruce did) until the end of this season and into next one, until he has had transfer windows and pre seasons, he is still cleaning up Bruce's mess.

[DakotaVilla]

The best contribution Steve Bruce has made to Villa is still to happen. Hopefully when he becomes Sheff Wed manager he can buy back some of the overpaid and limited players that he stockpiled here.

Trust in Bruce - we all know that he’s a one trick long ball pony. 

[TRO]

3 hours ago, TheStagMan said:

Hasn't left us a mess? Come on TRO....

 

OK...24 wins last season..... and still failed miserably in the play offs, with his own team after three transfer windows and a pre season. Then after another transfer window and pre season how many games did we win under him this season???? His shit performances this season are why we will struggle to match that tally this season.

By mess, i am talking about the divisions in the fans (people STILL defending him WTF?), pathetic league position (when Smith came in) after an "easy" run of games) and some great players like Tammy and McGinn - both of whom, together with Tuanzebe look far better players under Smith.

He was a shit manager for Aston Villa, and I would suggest that any number of other managers could have done just as "good" a job as he did.

 

As for your last point of course we are behind Smith. He is doing an amazing job with one hand tied behind his back with what he inherited...... case in point, in the same number of games as Bruce this season, with the same group of players, we have conceeded less against better teams..... so much for Bruce being a master of defence eh?

Smith will absolutely get a free run from me (as Bruce did) until the end of this season and into next one, until he has had transfer windows and pre seasons, he is still cleaning up Bruce's mess.

I am not defending him carte blanche....I am defending him against hyperbole.

I still think Dean Smith had a better squad left him than Bruce himself had in 2016.....but its opinions.

I just disagree with your description of what he left.....The defence is poor, granted, but surely Terry and Johnstone going and no money to fix it didn't help.....a mess, I would describe every dep't as poor and it isn't.

Edited December 28, 2018 by TRO

[TRO]

4 hours ago, Stevo985 said:

Well I mean that's basically my point.

Bruce set teams up that made it easier for defenders to play well. As you've said.

And Elphick was still crap (imo)

spot on.

[TRO]

8 hours ago, Vive_La_Villa said:

Especially when some of our plus points such as Abraham and Mcginn are down to Bruce.

The way he left the defence was criminal and the actions of a man on borrowed time. No getting away from that. 

Its like working a notice period. You’ll still remain professional but will never give your all or really get bogged down by problems because you no sooner or later those problems will no longer be yours.

I think this was Bruce when the owners let him keep the job. His payoff was always the ultimate prize. 

do you mean like Lamberts 5 year contract to Gabby on the way out?

[Dave-R]

10 hours ago, TheStagMan said:

Hasn't left us a mess? Come on TRO....

 

OK...24 wins last season..... and still failed miserably in the play offs, with his own team after three transfer windows and a pre season. Then after another transfer window and pre season how many games did we win under him this season???? His shit performances this season are why we will struggle to match that tally this season.

By mess, i am talking about the divisions in the fans (people STILL defending him WTF?), pathetic league position (when Smith came in) after an "easy" run of games) and some great players like Tammy and McGinn - both of whom, together with Tuanzebe look far better players under Smith.

He was a shit manager for Aston Villa, and I would suggest that any number of other managers could have done just as "good" a job as he did.

 

As for your last point of course we are behind Smith. He is doing an amazing job with one hand tied behind his back with what he inherited...... case in point, in the same number of games as Bruce this season, with the same group of players, we have conceeded less against better teams..... so much for Bruce being a master of defence eh?

Smith will absolutely get a free run from me (as Bruce did) until the end of this season and into next one, until he has had transfer windows and pre seasons, he is still cleaning up Bruce's mess.

I support this, gets my vote.

[Dave-R]

8 hours ago, DakotaVilla said:

The best contribution Steve Bruce has made to Villa is still to happen. Hopefully when he becomes Sheff Wed manager he can buy back some of the overpaid and limited players that he stockpiled here.

Trust in Bruce - we all know that he’s a one trick long ball pony. 

Yes I hope he comes knocking I'm sure he will if we dangle a for sale sign at his head saying come and get your players at half the cost, his eye would twinkle.

[TheStagMan]

11 hours ago, TRO said:

I am not defending him carte blanche....I am defending him against hyperbole.

I still think Dean Smith had a better squad left him than Bruce himself had in 2016.....but its opinions.

I just disagree with your description of what he left.....The defence is poor, granted, but surely Terry and Johnstone going and no money to fix it didn't help.....a mess, I would describe every dep't as poor and it isn't.

And yet ypu are the one who constantly says our players are not good enough... 

Going over old ground but Bruce had a decent squad left to him.... many of the current first team were inherited. He bought some good first teamers in but a lot of loans and some utter dross. Smith also has a mess to sort out.

[Robtaylor200]

Am I on the wrong thread, I thought this was T.E thread  

IMO Tommy was one of the better defenders in the Championship until be brought him, same as a lot of players we brought were all doing well for their clubs. 

The question is . What did we do to them ?

I would love to see Tommy back and see what Deano can do with thim

Edited December 28, 2018 by Robtaylor200

[sne]

Just like I said when we signed them I think a CB pairing of Chester & Elphick is less than ideal as I don't feel they complement each other that well.

But I'd happily have him back as cover for the rest of the season.

[TheStagMan]

I think we need two CBs this window. If that is a first teamer replacement for Tuanzebe who compliments Chester better then i am happy with Elphick coming back as cover, especially if we are oaying most of his wages - however it wont be very fair on him if he is playing regularly and doing well out on loan.

[John]

12 minutes ago, TheStagMan said:

I think we need two CBs this window. If that is a first teamer replacement for Tuanzebe who compliments Chester better then i am happy with Elphick coming back as cover, especially if we are paying most of his wages - however it wont be very fair on him if he is playing regularly and doing well out on loan.

If Dean wants him he is our player. I agree the player might prefer to stay where he is but I suspect that you are correct and we are paying the bulk of his wages. If Hull want him that much they can pay his wages or most of them or he can agree to take less wages from us in order to stay where he wants to remain. I am hoping we can do better than bringing him back though and can therefore leave him where he is.  

Edited December 28, 2018 by John

[Vive_La_Villa]

I thought Tommy was poor first season. Second season he finally got his chance with Terry, Samba and Jed all injured and he  played 3 games keeping 2 clean sheets. His reward, shipped out on loan. 

Bruce just didn’t fancy him. 

[TRO]

3 hours ago, TheStagMan said:

And yet ypu are the one who constantly says our players are not good enough... 

Going over old ground but Bruce had a decent squad left to him.... many of the current first team were inherited. He bought some good first teamers in but a lot of loans and some utter dross. Smith also has a mess to sort out.

some.

but lets get back on topic....its tedious.

[kurtsimonw]

Would rather we tell Hull they have to sign him or we'll have him back. 

[Junxs]

17 hours ago, TRO said:

I am not defending him carte blanche....I am defending him against hyperbole.

I still think Dean Smith had a better squad left him than Bruce himself had in 2016.....but its opinions.

I just disagree with your description of what he left.....The defence is poor, granted, but surely Terry and Johnstone going and no money to fix it didn't help.....a mess, I would describe every dep't as poor and it isn't.

Disagree.

If you look at the best players under the whole Bruce era they are: Kodjia, Chester, Jedinak, Johstone, Terry, Snodgrass, Hutton, Adomah and Grealish. 

4 of those were RDM signings, 2 were already here before then. So the only 3 signings Bruce made from that list were Johnstone, Snodgrass and Terry - none of whom he left for the new manager.  2 years down the line, its clear Chester and Kodjia are not the same players anymore, and Hutton & Jedinak are close to retirement.

McGinn is the best Bruce addition, and Hourihane probably the next best but even he draws debates on whether he should be replaced (just look at the last 5 pages in his thread).

RDM didnt leave any loans for Bruce either, just quality players we owned outright. It was Bruces own decision to rip that squad up and go down the short term route of 1 year deals and loan signings. He himself complained in every post match interview this season how half his squad is missing from last year and having to start all over again so i dont know how you can claim we have a better squad now than that Bruce started with.

Bruce October 2016: Gollini, Hutton, Amavi, Chester, Elphick / Jedinak, Westwood, Grealish / Adomah, Ayew, Kodjia -  / subs / McCormack, Baker, Gestede, Bacuna / de Laet / Agbonlahor / Bunn - Remember players are 2 years younger and closer to their prime like Kodj, Jedi, Hutton

Smith October 2018: Nyland, Hutton, Taylor, Chester, Tuanzebe* / Hourihane, McGinn, Grealish / Bolasie*, Kodjia, Abraham* -  / subs / Whelan, Bjarnason, Hogan, Bunn, El Ghazi, El Mohammady & no defenders *also 5 loan players that will need replacing next season

I think Bruce started with a much better squad that was far far more balanced, especially if you look at all the players on the books and not just the starting xi

Even if you think the current group of players is better, you have to admit theres not much in it and Bruce only managed 12th that first season. 

[Dave J]

19 hours ago, TRO said:

I am not defending him carte blanche....I am defending him against hyperbole.

I still think Dean Smith had a better squad left him than Bruce himself had in 2016.....but its opinions.

I just disagree with your description of what he left.....The defence is poor, granted, but surely Terry and Johnstone going and no money to fix it didn't help.....a mess, I would describe every dep't as poor and it isn't.

TRO - I know you are a fan - but he has left us in a mess. It ain't hyperbole at all. Yes we are in a better position than when he joined - but given what was made available to him - the gains were minimal imo.

He has left us with the play offs as our only  realistic hope of securing promotion and for the self styled promotion guru of the championship - quite frankly this is not good enough.

Let go Tro - he's yesterday's man and and someone I will gloss over in the blink of an eye.

I have no fondness whatsoever from his tenure to take going forward 

[TRO]

44 minutes ago, Dave J said:

TRO - I know you are a fan - but he has left us in a mess. It ain't hyperbole at all. Yes we are in a better position than when he joined - but given what was made available to him - the gains were minimal imo.

He has left us with the play offs as our only  realistic hope of securing promotion and for the self styled promotion guru of the championship - quite frankly this is not good enough.

Let go Tro - he's yesterday's man and and someone I will gloss over in the blink of an eye.

I have no fondness whatsoever from his tenure to take going forward 

Firstly, we are off topic.

Me let go?..now that is rich Dave....I am not the one who keeps bringing up at every opportunity, when a set back is in the air...or dropped points....its all Steve Bruces Fault.

its the others who ought to let go....He's gone, why keep bringing his name up....its many of the same fans who didn't want RDM brought up in Bruces defence.....can't have it both ways.

I have said it before Dave and I will say it again.....you will believe me at some point I hope, I am not a fan of Steve Bruce, just a bystander who disagree's with  SOME of the criticism that gets aimed his way or the extent of it.....which I think is harsh....that's my opinion, like you have yours.

We nearly lost the club in the summer, we couldn't pay the gas bill and you and others have the gaul to dismiss that like it never happened, or it was a sideshow, yes it was his football that contributed to it, but what if we had of won?....what then Dave?....it was one goal, just like the one that beat us the other night, one miserable goal, before penalties.

some say it was a blessing in disguise, that's another slant on it and it could be right....every cloud and all that.

are you kidding Dave? The hypocrisy is overwhelming....its you and a few others that can't gloss over with a blink of any eye....you can't put him down.

Dean Smith is the manager comment all you like about him and leave post managers out of our business, its negative nonsense. Dean will/should stand or fall on his own actions and I am sure he will agree with that himself.

He has a window coming up now to put all the wrongs right....move on.

 

 

 

Edited December 28, 2018 by TRO