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Tommy Elphick


Demitri_C

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1 hour ago, Stevo985 said:

I think it’s a stretch to suggest Elphick’s ooor performances were down to Bruce. 

He was shit under RDM, and our defence last season was excellent without him.

Not everything is Steve Bruce’s fault

Of course not everything is Bruce's fault.

But 90% of the shit DS walked into was left in such a state by the last manager.

He had already left the club psychologically long before he actually did leave.

I agree Elphick is no Mellberg, but someone instilling half an ounce of confidence in him won't do us any harm for 5 months.

We signed him under the impression that he captained Bournemouth's promotion, would be nice if he came back and helped us with ours before departing in the summer.

I do think you need to let go of the defence and 'Not everything is Bruce's fault' stick a little imo.  ;)

 

Edited by AvfcRigo82
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1 hour ago, sir_gary_cahill said:

Who says we have money especially when we’ve just spent £7m on a keeper? I’d get Elphick back, he gets a lot of stick on here, I don’t know why, solid centre back for me

I didn’t say we had money. I said we needed signings, hence why I can see the logic in recalling Elphick even though he’s not very good. 

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10 minutes ago, AvfcRigo82 said:

Of course not everything is Bruce's fault.

But 90% of the shit DS walked into was left in such a state by the last manager.

He had already left the club psychologically long before he actually did leave.

I agree Elphick is no Mellberg, but someone instilling half an ounce of confidence in him won't do us any harm for 5 months.

We signed him under the impression that he captained Bournemouth's promotion, would be nice if he came back and helped us with ours before departing in the summer.

I do think you need to let go of the defence and 'Not everything is Bruce's fault' stick a little imo.  ;)

 

What stick? It was an answer to your post. You were blaming Bruce for Elphicks performances, I disagreed. Seemingly you’re now agreeing with me. 

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2 minutes ago, Stevo985 said:

What stick? It was an answer to your post. You were blaming Bruce for Elphicks performances, I disagreed. Seemingly you’re now agreeing with me. 

Just the 'stick' used in a few threads that you think everyone blames Bruce for just about anything.

Who knows, I might have got the wrong end of the stick, but Bruce did leave us in the shit.

On a seperate note and Fwiw, Elphick's performances might have been slightly better had he a manager that believed in him more. Bruce was not that person imo.

 

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I thought he was brilliant during this season's opener.  Scored a goal and looked solid at the back.  If he WANTS to play for us, I'll take him back.  If he would rather stay at Hull, I would prefer to find someone else.  The last thing we need is a player who doesn't want to be here playing in a key position for the rest of the season.  

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55 minutes ago, TRO said:

I don't think referring back to Bruce every time we have a set back , is particularly well thought through......Dean Smith himself doesn't do it and he is more entitled to, why do we.

Especially when some of our plus points such as Abraham and Mcginn are down to Bruce.

The way he left the defence was criminal and the actions of a man on borrowed time. No getting away from that. 

Its like working a notice period. You’ll still remain professional but will never give your all or really get bogged down by problems because you no sooner or later those problems will no longer be yours.

I think this was Bruce when the owners let him keep the job. His payoff was always the ultimate prize. 

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39 minutes ago, AvfcRigo82 said:

Just the 'stick' used in a few threads that you think everyone blames Bruce for just about anything.

Who knows, I might have got the wrong end of the stick, but Bruce did leave us in the shit.

On a seperate note and Fwiw, Elphick's performances might have been slightly better had he a manager that believed in him more. Bruce was not that person imo.

 

Bruce did leave us in the shit.

But he does get blamed for everything. You blaming him for Elphick's performances is evidence of that imo. It just amuses me, that's all.

 

On your last point, there's nothing to suggest Bruce didn't believe in Elphick, at least at first. He made 20 or so appearances under Bruce in Bruce's first season but he was being outperformed by Nathan Baker. He was, to put it frankly, shit. That's why he got dropped and then shipped off on loan.

You're absolutely right, Smith might be able to get more out of him. But given that our defence under Bruce largely performed very well, and players like Hutton, Chester and Elmohamady look a shadow of themselves this season now Bruce has gone, it seems a stretch to blame Bruce for Elphick being shit.
Unless, of course, you have a tendency to blame Bruce for everything... which brings me full circle to my first point :) 

Edited by Stevo985
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8 minutes ago, Stevo985 said:

But given that our defence under Bruce largely performed very well, and players like Hutton, Chester and Elmohamady look a shadow of themselves this season now Bruce has gone

Probably not intentional but this implies that one is the result of the other.

I would argue Hutton is no worse this season than last. As for the other two and the collective back 4/5, I think the drop in both individual and collective form is more to do with the change of keeper and loss of Terry than it is Bruce.

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1 minute ago, TrentVilla said:

Probably not intentional but this implies that one is the result of the other.

I would argue Hutton is no worse this season than last. As for the other two and the collective back 4/5, I think the drop in both individual and collective form is more to do with the change of keeper and loss of Terry than it is Bruce.

I think it's a combination of everything.

I guess the overall point I was making is, for all his faults, Steve Bruce is usually pretty good at getting his teams to defend. I don't personally think there's any evidence that Elphick's poor performances in a Villa shirt are down to Bruce. Elphick was crap before Bruce arrived, he was crap while Bruce was here and I'd bet good money that he'll be crap if he gets recalled :D 

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6 minutes ago, Stevo985 said:

You're absolutely right, Smith might be able to get more out of him. But given that our defence under Bruce largely performed very well, and players like Hutton, Chester and Elmohamady look a shadow of themselves this season now Bruce has gone, it seems a stretch to blame Bruce for Elphick being shit

These players are undoubtedly struggling this season, however that in my opinion is largely due to a totally different style of play. When we were set up more defensively, they had more help around them, which is probably why a number of them will be replaced. Additionally JT no longer playing has been a big miss, particularly for Chester. 

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Just now, DaveAV1 said:

These players are undoubtedly struggling this season, however that in my opinion is largely due to a totally different style of play. When we were set up more defensively, they had more help around them, which is probably why a number of them will be replaced. Additionally JT no longer playing has been a big miss, particularly for Chester. 

They are being exposed more that’s all. How many times did Johnston bail us on with match winning saves last season.  Yes we are a lot more open now and it’s great to watch. But it’s also shown our defenders aren’t good enough if we want to play this way. 

Having said all that they were poor for Bruces 12 odd games too.  Maybe we are missing Terry and Jonstone more than people appriecate.

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7 minutes ago, TrentVilla said:

Probably not intentional but this implies that one is the result of the other.

I would argue Hutton is no worse this season than last. As for the other two and the collective back 4/5, I think the drop in both individual and collective form is more to do with the change of keeper and loss of Terry than it is Bruce.

I just read this after I had already posted above. This is exactly it. 

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6 minutes ago, Stevo985 said:

I think it's a combination of everything.

I guess the overall point I was making is, for all his faults, Steve Bruce is usually pretty good at getting his teams to defend. I don't personally think there's any evidence that Elphick's poor performances in a Villa shirt are down to Bruce. Elphick was crap before Bruce arrived, he was crap while Bruce was here and I'd bet good money that he'll be crap if he gets recalled :D 

I personally thought he played quite well in the 3 games he was called upon last season. 2 out of 3 clean sheets against top 6 teams. 

Not sure what else he could have done. 

Edited by Vive_La_Villa
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I’d be happy to see elphick back - much better option than Bree or Jedi playing out of position .

i think we will maybe bring in another defender too who can fill in at centre back or left back as axel is looking at several weeks out . 

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3 hours ago, TheStagMan said:

Probably because of the mess he left and the mountain we now have to climb. His impact will last a long time. He can't just be absolved of things because he has left with a nice pay off. When Smith has had a couple of transfer windows and a pre-season, then Bruce will no longer be to blame. Until then, he remains fair game for criticism. 

 

Listen, whether you like it or not....He secured 24 wins last season....and still failed to get us up...but you cannot just dismiss that as some kind of inconvenience to your stance...it wasn't complete, we all know that, as a result, we had too few committed to attack, the trick now is to get a balance that's gives us both

so you didn't like the football, neither did I, but its still a hell of a haul...we will do well to equal it this season.

He hasn't left a mess, he has left area's of weakness, lets put perspective in to the argument....just remember, he has a completely different style to the current manager.....If you care to check back on some of the posts, some of us said we deploy too may players to defensive duties, they are not as good as we think they are in defence....and they aren't.

John Terry masked over a lot.

I agree, Dean needs a few windows and then we can appraise him properly....as for blame, its a negative for me, I am not looking to blame anyone, I'm looking to praise success.

I am not looking for fault with Dean Smith, I am looking for success, so to hell with windows and pre seasons, lets just get behind him.

 

Edited by TRO
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3 hours ago, TheStagMan said:

And yet the stats (I know, I know, stats) show that in the 12 games Dean Smith has been in charge, we have conceded less goals than the prior 12 games under Bruce, even though we have played stronger teams in nearly all of those games. Tuanzebe for example has looked a significant improvement compared to last season. Hutton, looks the same to me. Chester looks a little shakier, i'll grant you that.

a little shakier..........OK

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3 hours ago, AvfcRigo82 said:

Just the 'stick' used in a few threads that you think everyone blames Bruce for just about anything.

Who knows, I might have got the wrong end of the stick, but Bruce did leave us in the shit.

On a seperate note and Fwiw, Elphick's performances might have been slightly better had he a manager that believed in him more. Bruce was not that person imo.

 

Not trying to prolong arguments of little value to us, but lets get it right.

He was sacked.....and I was in support of that, but he didn't know if he had a job in the summer or we had a club.....you can't just simply sweep that under the carpet.

He lost important players, he was unable to buy, until it was possibly too late.

Bruce Ultimately failed and as unsavoury to us that was, some of the stuff, is just wide of the mark IMO

In terms of every cloud has a silver lining....if we had of beat Fulham, the **** behind the scenes may still be here and we wouldn't have the new owners and Dean Smith.

He came along at a time we probably needed him....lets be grateful for small mercies and enjoy the times ahead....We can't reinvent history, lets move on.

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28 minutes ago, Stockport_Villain said:

If we see the player that came in when Terry was injured last season he’ll make us more secure than we have been. Also be nice for him to come and play for a manager that wants to play football similar to Howe at Bournemouth. I think it will work well.

Agree with this, I think it is all down to Dean now as to what he gets out of Elphick. I am sure Elphick just wants to settle at a club and be guaranteed an active role in any squad.

It is possible Dean already has two or three targets almost through the door, it could be that Elphick pleads with him to let him stay at Hull.



 

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