terrytini Posted July 18, 2016 Share Posted July 18, 2016 1 minute ago, Pilchard said: Lots of forgive and forget talk regarding a number of the players that let us down last year. If they show the correct attitude rather than the "don't give a..." shown last year, if performances are improved, if a willingness to not drag the club through the mud and take the piss out of fans and the club like Lescott, Guzan, Gabby, Bacuna did last year then if they manage all those 'ifs' then yes, certainly forgive. But forget? Never. They will always go down as the first group of players to relegate Aston Villa from the Premier League, and the worst team two (am i being dramatric? maybe one?) generations of fans can remember. I liked the Post but I think it isn't about forgiving. I take the view that anyone who watched the players you name last year will know ALL they need to know about their character, ability, passion, commitment, desire, heart, nous, and so on. Add to that we know the effect it had on the Team, add the potential effect it could have on new and younger players, it is simply logical to me that they go. For those who think otherwise, what happens 6 games in, with those players playing and not performing ? We drop like a stone, that's what. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pilchard Posted July 18, 2016 Share Posted July 18, 2016 Quote it is simply logical to me that they go. Oh I agree. It was one of the frustrating things about not bringing in a manager before the end of the season. A new manager always gives players a new start. That's how Gabby has survived so often. Trouble is, the circle of them letting him down, manager being sacked and players being given a chance is a killer. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlwaysAVFC Posted July 18, 2016 Share Posted July 18, 2016 14 minutes ago, dont_do_it_doug. said: **** me. People are genuinely advocating spending £30m paying players off. I'm outta here till something happens. It was never going to happen was it. How many players on premier league contracts have been paid off by their clubs? I doubt there are many, then there will be even less that have been paid off with more than 1 year left on their contract and then has any club paid off more than one player at the same time? I have no idea what these figures are but I imagine they are pretty low, and people expect Villa to pay off several players. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markavfc40 Posted July 18, 2016 Share Posted July 18, 2016 (edited) 28 minutes ago, dont_do_it_doug. said: **** me. People are genuinely advocating spending £30m paying players off. I agree it does sound absolutely bat shit crazy. If though RDM decides that 3 or 4 players are rotten and he wants them nowhere near the first team squad but no one is interested in taking them off our hands then do you continue to pay them their 30/40/50k a week for 2 or 3 years for training on their own or do you come to some agreement and pay up part of their contract and let them go. Either way it is gong to cost you millions. For me the sooner we can get rid of the bad eggs the sooner we can start to move on from last seasons horror show and start afresh. It is wishful thinking that RDM can turn things around in this squad and get them all pulling in the same direction. One way or another it needs a major cull otherwise I can see the issues we had last season with a lack of collective fight quickly rearing its ugly head and that feel good factor that has started to show its face will quickly disappear. Edited July 18, 2016 by markavfc40 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrentVilla Posted July 18, 2016 Moderator Share Posted July 18, 2016 29 minutes ago, terrytini said: Well I am, Yes. I don't see the issue. IF you (or me, or RDM, but obviously it is RDM who matters) think the players (lets say 4, 5, or 6 of them, we roughly know who we mean then) were at fault in terms of effort, ability, attitude, desire, know-how, discipline etc, or any combination of these, and that as a group they reached some sort of critical mass of ineptitude which then also infected other players, which in turn led the Club to being a laughing stock (NB Someone said earlier that clubs don't sack all their players when they get relegated - well we aren't saying ALL and we were NOT just relegated. Short memories are growing but we were an embarrassment, we broke records of varying degrees of poorness, and the Ground became a hellhole for fans and players) then what's the problem. Pay £30m and get shot. In fact in my view (and I said it when the takeover was going through) anything less would be a waste of time. And since we - allegedly - have an incredibly wealthy owner, with huge publically stated ambitions, and who has mentioned significant sums of money being available - again, what is the problem ? IF the diagnosis I have outlined above is considered correct then £30million would far, far, be better spent getting rid of these, than getting others in. And anyway, IF we have the money, why not do both ? Alternatively, IF it is considered, again by you, me, RDM, or whoever, that the above diagnosis is wrong, then fine, keep them. But I would find it odd, to say the least, that anyone could find a good reason for keeping them. Unless of course, there isn't the money we have been led to believe. I don't see what is so odd about it. It would be drastic, but a none drastic approach was all but guaranteed under Lerner. Don't get me wrong, I want to see the back of the lot of them but I think expecting the owner to pay out that sort of money to buy out the contracts is utterly unrealistic so we will have to agree to disagree. With that I think I will bow out of this thread and take a hiatus from posting for a while. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
terrytini Posted July 18, 2016 Share Posted July 18, 2016 1 minute ago, AlwaysAVFC said: It was never going to happen was it. How many players on premier league contracts have been paid off by their clubs? I doubt there are many, then there will be even less that have been paid off with more than 1 year left on their contract and then has any club paid off more than one player at the same time? I have no idea what these figures are but I imagine they are pretty low, and people expect Villa to pay off several players. I agree with your 1st paragraph but I don't see the relevance. Also I don't think it is really that we (I) EXPECT it, I just think it is what is needed. The reason I don't see the relevance is that there are very few similar examples of very very Big Clubs getting relegated, then getting bought by someone with huge, publically stated, ambitions, and with some very obvious high paid, mostly older, players, who will stink the Club out if they remain. In my view, they are taking (if the players stay) a far bigger risk keeping them than paying them off. I mean, its only a few weeks ago almost everyone you spoke to wanted us to play the kids. Well I'd rather we did that and bought nobody, and used the money to get rid. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Posted July 18, 2016 Share Posted July 18, 2016 1 hour ago, TrentVilla said: At least you've revised it down to a few rather than all of them though now. I've not revised anything. If you re read my original post I used words like "some" and "a few". I never once said all of them Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StanBalaban Posted July 18, 2016 Share Posted July 18, 2016 51 minutes ago, dont_do_it_doug. said: **** me. People are genuinely advocating spending £30m paying players off. I'm outta here till something happens. It's the equivalent of saying "we might as well just change the locks so they can't come back in. Obviously I'm just a fan and this isn't going to happen, but it's my right in every post to be annoyed that the locks haven't been changed. I'm not the locksmith mind you, but surely someone can change the locks." Bollocks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maqroll Posted July 18, 2016 Share Posted July 18, 2016 (edited) I loved the Guardian piece. Are we being run by actual professionals now? Edited July 18, 2016 by maqroll Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
It's Your Round Posted July 18, 2016 Share Posted July 18, 2016 *pops in to have a read about Villa* *sees everybody squabbling* *disappears quickly until it's all died down* insert grandpa simpson gif here 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villan-scott Posted July 18, 2016 VT Supporter Share Posted July 18, 2016 22 minutes ago, maqroll said: I loved the Guardian piece. Are we being run by actual professionals now? According to some... No. We are still being run by pauper charlatans. In reality, yes it seems there is a plan and actions being taken towards that plan. Unfortunately Rome wasn't built in a day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
a m ole Posted July 18, 2016 Share Posted July 18, 2016 (edited) It is absolutely mental to expect RDM to say anything but what he said. He wasn't here. He didn't see them train last season. He could only see as much as anyone on the outside could. expecting him to come out and slate players for things that happened last season like a fan is ridiculous. Edit; even if he thinks it, it would be complete managerial suicide for him to do so. Theres nothing wrong with what he said and NOTHING to worry about. Edited July 18, 2016 by a m ole 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
srsmithusa Posted July 18, 2016 Share Posted July 18, 2016 33 minutes ago, It's Your Round said: *pops in to have a read about Villa* *sees everybody squabbling* *disappears quickly until it's all died down* insert grandpa simpson gif here coward ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobzy Posted July 18, 2016 Share Posted July 18, 2016 **** me - spend the remaining amount of our transfer budget on paying off players 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
terrytini Posted July 18, 2016 Share Posted July 18, 2016 48 minutes ago, bobzy said: **** me - spend the remaining amount of our transfer budget on paying off players Yes, ha ha. You haven't addressed the issues we have been discussing though, so, actually, not funny at all. I guess you would keep them then. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
terrytini Posted July 18, 2016 Share Posted July 18, 2016 2 hours ago, markavfc40 said: I agree it does sound absolutely bat shit crazy. If though RDM decides that 3 or 4 players are rotten and he wants them nowhere near the first team squad but no one is interested in taking them off our hands then do you continue to pay them their 30/40/50k a week for 2 or 3 years for training on their own or do you come to some agreement and pay up part of their contract and let them go. Either way it is gong to cost you millions. For me the sooner we can get rid of the bad eggs the sooner we can start to move on from last seasons horror show and start afresh. It is wishful thinking that RDM can turn things around in this squad and get them all pulling in the same direction. One way or another it needs a major cull otherwise I can see the issues we had last season with a lack of collective fight quickly rearing its ugly head and that feel good factor that has started to show its face will quickly disappear. Quite. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zatman Posted July 18, 2016 Share Posted July 18, 2016 1 hour ago, a m ole said: It is absolutely mental to expect RDM to say anything but what he said. He wasn't here. He didn't see them train last season. He could only see as much as anyone on the outside could. expecting him to come out and slate players for things that happened last season like a fan is ridiculous. Edit; even if he thinks it, it would be complete managerial suicide for him to do so. Theres nothing wrong with what he said and NOTHING to worry about. true but I think the only positive for me going down was removing these scum from our club and just diappointing that they are still around. though Di Matteo wasnt here a quick Google search of some players would have brought up any attitude problems from last season Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Junxs Posted July 18, 2016 Share Posted July 18, 2016 3 hours ago, terrytini said: You'd rather we kept them ? Why is it (in your view), that the only 2 options to either "cancel their contracts" or keep them? How about what happens in 99.9% of situations where the unwanted players are sold on or loaned out... we are only 18 days into the transfer window! How many player contracts have been cancelled ever? Adrian Mutu comes to mind for drug abuse.. I'm struggling to think of another after that. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grasshopper Posted July 18, 2016 Share Posted July 18, 2016 As a "Small business owner" if I were in the situation that 4/5 of my workers out of 25 were harming my business, there would definately come to a point where I would act to cut my losses. I'd start with the worst and how many would depend on my capcity. worst case senario would be the shiesters left back at basecamp while the 20 or so who "want it" would be on contract duty. yes stealing a living but not harming future contracted work. unless of course someone budgets me an extra 60g's a week and requests Gabby regardless of jobquality. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
a m ole Posted July 18, 2016 Share Posted July 18, 2016 (edited) 11 minutes ago, Grasshopper said: As a "Small business owner" if I were in the situation that 4/5 of my workers out of 25 were harming my business, there would definately come to a point where I would act to cut my losses. I'd start with the worst and how many would depend on my capcity. worst case senario would be the shiesters left back at basecamp while the 20 or so who "want it" would be on contract duty. yes stealing a living but not harming future contracted work. unless of course someone budgets me an extra 60g's a week and requests Gabby regardless of jobquality. how much are your staff worth and is the only way they could work for someone else if that business bought their registration to work from you? Edited July 18, 2016 by a m ole Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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