Richard Posted July 18, 2016 Share Posted July 18, 2016 6 minutes ago, Jareth said: Well I have had trouble sleeping lately... That's hardly a fair comment to make about posters who I am replying to but each to their own i guess Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jareth Posted July 18, 2016 VT Supporter Share Posted July 18, 2016 15 minutes ago, Richard said: That's hardly a fair comment to make about posters who I am replying to but each to their own i guess That's the problem with text based communication, my post came over all unfair and yours came over all condescending. We'll have to call it quits and make-up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rodders0223 Posted July 18, 2016 Share Posted July 18, 2016 54 minutes ago, terrytini said: It is the fact that he (with all that money to spend, and presumably having watched last seasons matches by now) thinks they are the best he can do. Why on earth would he (or anyone else for that matter) think that ? We were record breakingly bad. That is THESE players. It is no surprise that people (not you, you have mentioned getting promoted) who are saying "if he can use them etc" are in many cases also saying "its a bit much to get promoted !" Of course it is if we play those same players !! All what money? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BOF Posted July 18, 2016 Moderator Share Posted July 18, 2016 51 minutes ago, terrytini said: Well again I disagree. I think he would have GAINED the respect of the rest of the squad, and the fans, had he done it. In fact, had he done it, I think these Boards would have showed almost 100% support for him. Gaining fan respect and gaining the respect of your squad are 2 different things, and I'd say almost mutually exclusive. Plenty of fans would love the guilty players from last season to be hung out to dry. His squad on the other hand would probably not like to see colleagues and fellow professionals being treated in that way. We can agree to disagree but I think I know how I'd feel about a boss if they treated me or my peers in that manner, and they wouldn't go up in my estimation. 51 minutes ago, terrytini said: We aren't talking about 10 players, we are talking somewhere between 4 and 6 in most fans eyes. And how many players are wishing it too ? He doesn't have to slaughter the whole Squad. If anything, singling out some actually enables him to tell the others, "you lot were ok but it was their fault" - as it is, he is effectively lumping them all together (it appears) This is precisely what I'm on about. Singling out players is IMV a disastrous managerial approach. Regardless of whether he singles out the right ones, he loses the respect of those players, of the players watching on and of the fans who would question his judgement. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post TrentVilla Posted July 18, 2016 Moderator Popular Post Share Posted July 18, 2016 29 minutes ago, Richard said: Think about it like this. Are we saying we wont be able to shift the shit players? Well if thats the case then they are with us until their contracts run down and we have several Nzogbia type situations. They will hardly play and contribute nothing apart from bad atmosphere stinking the club out and effectively taking up a squad place and wages from someone else and preventing us from improving. If the whole idea is that we should improve and there are funds available then cutting losses on some of them now may be a huge benefit. Players like Lescott, Guzan, Gabby, Bacuna if these are the ones we believe we cannot get rid of them to another club and we all know they will be shit for us, what do we do? I would suggest that cancelling a few contracts would be the wisest move if we are sure no one wants them. Only you can't "cancel contracts" can you. At best you can reach a mural agreement to end them or you can pay them off but you can't just cancel them. A player of £60k a week is on over £3m a year and that's before add on's like appearance fee's, win bonuses and goal bonuses (so not much extra at Villa), players don't walk away from that and their agents don't let them. So what you are advocating is writing of circa £4m a year on each year of the players contracts you are talking about. It's not going to happen. 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rodders0223 Posted July 18, 2016 Share Posted July 18, 2016 We could just hire someone to break their legs, thus claiming on the old insurance. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dont_do_it_doug. Posted July 18, 2016 Share Posted July 18, 2016 36 minutes ago, Richard said: Think about it like this. Are we saying we wont be able to shift the shit players? No. I'm saying nothing more than all 25 members of the squad had a shitty time of it. I don't believe RDM mentioned specific players? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Uncle Albert Posted July 18, 2016 Share Posted July 18, 2016 Just now, rodders0223 said: We could just hire someone to break their legs, thus claiming on the old insurance. ill do bacuna's for a breakfast Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrentVilla Posted July 18, 2016 Moderator Share Posted July 18, 2016 1 minute ago, rodders0223 said: We could just hire someone to break their legs, thus claiming on the old insurance. You mean Ciaran Clark? We already employ him sadly. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Zatman Posted July 18, 2016 Popular Post Share Posted July 18, 2016 57 minutes ago, Michael118 said: It was the managers who relegated us last season. im sorry that is bollocks. managers werent great but players attitude was rotten and performances were some of the worst ever in a Villa jersey 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Posted July 18, 2016 Share Posted July 18, 2016 37 minutes ago, TrentVilla said: Only you can't "cancel contracts" can you. At best you can reach a mural agreement to end them or you can pay them off but you can't just cancel them. A player of £60k a week is on over £3m a year and that's before add on's like appearance fee's, win bonuses and goal bonuses (so not much extra at Villa), players don't walk away from that and their agents don't let them. So what you are advocating is writing of circa £4m a year on each year of the players contracts you are talking about. Yes I'm aware it doesn't come without cost associated Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrentVilla Posted July 18, 2016 Moderator Share Posted July 18, 2016 2 minutes ago, Richard said: Yes I'm aware it doesn't come without cost associated So you are advocating they should spend what £30m? £40m? Paying off players. How much roughly do you think they should put towards this? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Posted July 18, 2016 Share Posted July 18, 2016 1 minute ago, TrentVilla said: So you are advocating they should spend what £30m? £40m? Paying off players. How much roughly do you think they should put towards this? Not my decision really is it? I'm a fan of this club saying what I would like to happen. I'm saying , IMO, we will be left with 4 or 5 Charles Nzogbias contributing nothing except affecting morale, badly. IMO if we have funds to make us a top 3 team in Europe and a willingness to improve, then IMO, the wisest may be to get rid of a few Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrentVilla Posted July 18, 2016 Moderator Share Posted July 18, 2016 10 minutes ago, Richard said: Not my decision really is it? I'm a fan of this club saying what I would like to happen. I'm saying , IMO, we will be left with 4 or 5 Charles Nzogbias contributing nothing except affecting morale, badly. IMO if we have funds to make us a top 3 team in Europe and a willingness to improve, then IMO, the wisest may be to get rid of a few No obviously it's not but you were offering as the wisest solution to the problem which suggests you'd thought it through which would require even some back of a fag packet maths. I'm simply pointing out what you are advocating is completely unrealistic and not going to happen even if we have that sort of budget which is highly doubtful. Besides which even if we do have that level of funds available I still don't think it would have a budget for doing what you are suggesting. At least you've revised it down to a few rather than all of them though now. I just think it's far too easy for people to say things like "cancel contracts" without being realistic. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post snowychap Posted July 18, 2016 Popular Post Share Posted July 18, 2016 1 hour ago, TrentVilla said: At best you can reach a mural agreement to end them Pay them off with a Banksy? 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Butterfingers Posted July 18, 2016 Share Posted July 18, 2016 This is getting silly. We had a transfer budget of somewhere between £30 & £50mil. We've spent more than 10 of that. Does someone really suggest that we spend the remainder on buying out players contracts? What about FFP? I confess to not knowing much about it but know enough to know that you cannot simply throw a disproportionate amount into a club. No team, anywhere in the world, in the history of football has paid out millions to buy players contracts out en masse. This is the real world here, not football manager. As a championship club, we have to cut our cloth accordingly, regardless of how much our owner has access to. We are not going to but out all the dead wood's contracts-It's not going to happen. Move on and lets get back to sensible suggestions. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
terrytini Posted July 18, 2016 Share Posted July 18, 2016 31 minutes ago, TrentVilla said: So you are advocating they should spend what £30m? £40m? Paying off players. How much roughly do you think they should put towards this? Well I am, Yes. I don't see the issue. IF you (or me, or RDM, but obviously it is RDM who matters) think the players (lets say 4, 5, or 6 of them, we roughly know who we mean then) were at fault in terms of effort, ability, attitude, desire, know-how, discipline etc, or any combination of these, and that as a group they reached some sort of critical mass of ineptitude which then also infected other players, which in turn led the Club to being a laughing stock (NB Someone said earlier that clubs don't sack all their players when they get relegated - well we aren't saying ALL and we were NOT just relegated. Short memories are growing but we were an embarrassment, we broke records of varying degrees of poorness, and the Ground became a hellhole for fans and players) then what's the problem. Pay £30m and get shot. In fact in my view (and I said it when the takeover was going through) anything less would be a waste of time. And since we - allegedly - have an incredibly wealthy owner, with huge publically stated ambitions, and who has mentioned significant sums of money being available - again, what is the problem ? IF the diagnosis I have outlined above is considered correct then £30million would far, far, be better spent getting rid of these, than getting others in. And anyway, IF we have the money, why not do both ? Alternatively, IF it is considered, again by you, me, RDM, or whoever, that the above diagnosis is wrong, then fine, keep them. But I would find it odd, to say the least, that anyone could find a good reason for keeping them. Unless of course, there isn't the money we have been led to believe. I don't see what is so odd about it. It would be drastic, but a none drastic approach was all but guaranteed under Lerner. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post dont_do_it_doug. Posted July 18, 2016 Popular Post Share Posted July 18, 2016 **** me. People are genuinely advocating spending £30m paying players off. I'm outta here till something happens. 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pilchard Posted July 18, 2016 Share Posted July 18, 2016 Lots of forgive and forget talk regarding a number of the players that let us down last year. If they show the correct attitude rather than the "don't give a..." shown last year, if performances are improved, if a willingness to not drag the club through the mud and take the piss out of fans and the club like Lescott, Guzan, Gabby, Bacuna did last year then if they manage all those 'ifs' then yes, certainly forgive. But forget? Never. They will always go down as the first group of players to relegate Aston Villa from the Premier League, and the worst team two (am i being dramatric? maybe one?) generations of fans can remember. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
terrytini Posted July 18, 2016 Share Posted July 18, 2016 4 minutes ago, dont_do_it_doug. said: **** me. People are genuinely advocating spending £30m paying players off. I'm outta here till something happens. You'd rather we kept them ? Oh, sorry , you aren't here ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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