Popular Post Deisler123 Posted May 20, 2016 Author Popular Post Share Posted May 20, 2016 (edited) Wants to write something about how Villa (and any foreign clubs) can benefit from having a few youth players from China. It is like what the advert you may have seen on internet which keeps telling you that you can earn 1000 quid at home for doing nothing. This is very much like that. Why Chinese football players are so expensive? You are probably right to say Chinese super league is nowhere near the premier league in terms of the quality of players, matches etc. True. But you think those players are cheap, like what they are worth on the transfermarkt.com? Think again. Just to give you an example: Currently, the most expensive Chinese player, Wu Lei, worth 1M euro shown on the transfermarkt.com. If his club, Shanghai SIPG, wants to sell him, the transfer fee will be about 10mil-20mil pounds. So 10-20 times more inflation. Why? Simple, because in Chinese super league, you can register maximum 5 foreign players, and you can have maximum 3 foreign players and 1 Asian player playing on the pitch at the same time. And you cannot have non-chinese goalkeeper. And we all know the owners are super rich so they can buy Ramiras, Texeira etc, but you got to have good players in all 11 positions, right? So what do you do? Simple, you pay much more, because we don't have a lot of excellent players in China. Alternatively, you buy a lot of good players and sell them at a higer price on day 2. An example I have shared in another thread: Guangzhou Evergrande bought a chinese player, Xin Xu, from Athletico Madrid B team, for 5M euros. His value shown on the transfer markt.com? 50k euros at that time. 100 times inflation! And junior players are so precious (because of 2000-2010 when football in China was completely dead) that they are even more popular even if they are not good at all. So a lot of european clubs started to do this- they sign good young players and train them - if they can make to the first team, great! that means sponsorships from China. if they cannot, even greater, they sell them back to China. The problem for English Clubs is, chinese players cannot play here because it is impossible to get work permit, unless the football genius clause is claimed (which costs a lot of money, 10M pounds at least if I am not mistaken). But it is definitely worth researching for Villa if the owner is also keen on this. There are some way through, for example like what Chelsea is doing: buy and then loan out to other european leagues. Who would say no to easy money? Edited May 21, 2016 by Deisler123 13 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deisler123 Posted May 20, 2016 Author Share Posted May 20, 2016 Ok, time to be off today. Will be back tomorrow to write more about how clubs are run by those rich men. Thanks for your reading. Any questions, let me know. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snowychap Posted May 20, 2016 Share Posted May 20, 2016 10 minutes ago, Deisler123 said: It is like what the advert you may have seen on internet which keeps telling you that you can earn 1000 quid at home for doing nothing. This is very much like that. ... Who would say no to easy money? Cheers. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jareth Posted May 20, 2016 VT Supporter Share Posted May 20, 2016 Cheers Deisler - very informative. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
S-Platt Posted May 20, 2016 VT Supporter Share Posted May 20, 2016 I have a couple of questions and how they relate to football. So first off please give us an insight into each answer and secondly how could that impact Villa and do you think it will. 1. Number 8 what is the story behind why that number is lucky? 2. Likewise I believe the colour Red is another lucky thing is Claret good enough in this case? Forgive me if these are daft questions! Keep up the information it's great stuff and we appreciate it takes time. You have a captive audience here! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daweii Posted May 20, 2016 Share Posted May 20, 2016 So what it seems is Xia may be running foul of merely not declaring that he has a lot of cash in business that he is willing to use ala Evergrande, this of course is smart as if Xia was like "Oh yeah with me in charge Aston Villa have £10+ billion" we'd see every team in the Championship make their players £50+ million for us only. Hopefully if he is pretty legit and has cash that the obscure structure of Recon isn't a huge issue for fit and proper. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deisler123 Posted May 20, 2016 Author Share Posted May 20, 2016 (edited) 29 minutes ago, S-Platt said: I have a couple of questions and how they relate to football. So first off please give us an insight into each answer and secondly how could that impact Villa and do you think it will. 1. Number 8 what is the story behind why that number is lucky? 2. Likewise I believe the colour Red is another lucky thing is Claret good enough in this case? Forgive me if these are daft questions! Keep up the information it's great stuff and we appreciate it takes time. You have a captive audience here! 1. the pronounciation of number 8 in Chinese (both mandarin and cantonese, althought there is difference between them)is Ba the first tone. That has a close sound to 'becoming wealthy', which is Fa the first tone. Plus in chinese tradition, people always believe in some luck/fortune-telling things. So althought most of us are not religious, we like to see more 8, which means more wealth. Similarly 6 is also good. It is pronouciated as 'Liu'/'L-e-ou', which means (with combinations with other letters) 'smooth' or 'going-well'. number 4 is definitely a no no. 'Si the fourth tone' or 'Sit without the /t/' shares the same sound as 'death although with third tone'. Again because people believe in fortune-telling, we do not like this number. Funny enough my mobile phone number in this country starts with 0744, Damn it..... 2. Red is a 'holy' colour in China in a way that it prevents evil things, because it is the colour of blood, which is believed to be able to scare ghosts. So if this year happens to be your year (in terms of the Zodiac year every 12 years), then you must wear red clothes, like underwear, t shirt, socks, whatever you can find. Because it is believed that in the Zodiac year (of your year) you will be extremely unluckly and evils things will come and find you. yes, I think Claret is good too. Although in Thrillers ghosts (especially females) always wear Claret color clothes. just saying.... Cheers! Edited May 20, 2016 by Deisler123 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post JAMAICAN-VILLAN Posted May 21, 2016 Popular Post Share Posted May 21, 2016 2 hours ago, MikeMcKenna said: Exactly what I thought. Especially given the fact that he is posting on Vital and possibly elsewhere. Who cares, it's still info most of us did not know. 9 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlwaysAVFC Posted May 21, 2016 Share Posted May 21, 2016 5 hours ago, Deisler123 said: number 4 is definitely a no no. 'Si the fourth tone' or 'Sit without the /t/' shares the same sound as 'death although with third tone'. Again because people believe in fortune-telling, we do not like this number. Funny enough my mobile phone number in this country starts with 0744, Damn it..... Any family back home must hate ringing you then, as it would be +44744........ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kingman Posted May 21, 2016 Share Posted May 21, 2016 That you Hairy Hands? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dudevillaisnice Posted May 21, 2016 Share Posted May 21, 2016 A curiously informative thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mwj Posted May 21, 2016 Share Posted May 21, 2016 Exactly what I thought. Especially given the fact that he is posting on Vital and possibly elsewhere. Lol tin hats. God forbid anyone shows interest in the club huh? I thought new fans was the point of a Chinese owner? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deisler123 Posted May 21, 2016 Author Share Posted May 21, 2016 2 hours ago, AlwaysAVFC said: Any family back home must hate ringing you then, as it would be +44744........ Exactly! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JAMAICAN-VILLAN Posted May 21, 2016 Share Posted May 21, 2016 1 hour ago, Kingman said: That you Hairy Hands? Think hairy hands was Lambert. This is more than likely "Hairless hands". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
It's Your Round Posted May 21, 2016 Share Posted May 21, 2016 8 hours ago, Deisler123 said: number four is definitely a no no Yes! That's Micah Richards gone then 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villatillidie1980 Posted May 21, 2016 VT Supporter Share Posted May 21, 2016 Thanks Deisler - a really good read Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
powell91 Posted May 21, 2016 Share Posted May 21, 2016 Great read so far mate and a good insight into Chinese football. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villan-scott Posted May 21, 2016 VT Supporter Share Posted May 21, 2016 Keep them coming. An insightful read! I'm intrigued by the next chapter and what you'll have to say. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PussEKatt Posted May 21, 2016 Share Posted May 21, 2016 Good read......you will be a Villa fan before you know it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Deisler123 Posted May 21, 2016 Author Popular Post Share Posted May 21, 2016 (edited) Part IV: The ownership of clubs in Chinese Super League – I: the owners OK. Here comes the core topics, the ownership of clubs in China. Now there are 16 clubs in the super league. They are located geographically quite uniform across east half of China (where economy is better developed). The northest club, Changchun Yatai, in the city of Changchun, has the similar latitude to Paris. The southest club, Guangzhou Evergrande, in the city of Guangzhou, has the similar latitude to Senegal. So domestic league in China is like a European Champions league in terms of flight time, which is why FA in China hasn’t increase the number of clubs to 18 or even more, apart from the obvious reason of keeping the high quality of league. So how many of those 16 clubs are owned directly by government. None. Because government in China does not do business directly How many of them are owned by state companies? Probably three : Shandong Luneng (by National Electricity Network, the central company that deals with electricity in China), Shanghai SIPG (by SIPG company that deals with harbours in Shanghai), Beijing Guoan (by Guoan, a state company, that deals with information, real estate etc.) And all others are (theoretically) owned by private companies. Here it is necessary to say a little about how business works in general in China, which is VERY different from how it works in UK. In theory everything in China is owned by the people, governed by the government. But it simply does not work in this century (Soviet Russia was an example of that). Because of that, government allowed private-owned business since 80s. That said, all large scale business has to have, in some form or another, involvement of government, either decision making or direct investment. Because most (14 out of 16) clubs’ owners are involved in real estate/urban development business, so I will use that as an example to explain, in a nutshell, why government’s involvement is essential for the success of a mega company. To start with, all land in China is owned by government according to the law. If you want to develop a land, for example, in Beijing, you need to buy from government. The problem now is, how would you compete with more than 100+ mega companies that all work in this business with more than billions dollars? The answer is obvious, you need to convince the seller (government) in one way or another, either your plan is impressive, or you pay more, or …. (you can imagine the rest of the methods, right?). So after a few projects like this, you became a millionaire, having worked with the government for a few times – you need approval from government, you need borrow from the bank (most owned by government), you need to have contractors (some owned by government), and I can go on forever – you see the point here? You cannot do business without government, which is the regulatory body. Is it necessarily a bad thing? Not at all – it has proven to be successful in the last 20 years. Could it be better without the involvement of government? Maybe, but it is impossible to happen or prove. Why spend our brain cells on something that will never happen? Plus China has a very strict policy on companies that receive funds from overseas, or buying in overseas countries. It is like the UK will never allow China to buy Royce – this may not be a very good example as it is much stricter in almost all sectors in China though. So if you want to invest overseas, what do you do? Yes, I guess you know the answer – you work WITH the government, in a form or another. Note that I am not talking about small business like I-have-a-million-pounds-so-i-want-to-invest-a-house-in-London type of things, which is probably not regulated by the government. Any major projects are normally (almost for certain) have the involvement of government – because those companies have some background of government at the first place! I hope this helps you understand why business in China has little transparency (of course there are other reasons but we don't need to get into those as we are not students in economy). Because, put it in a simpler way, it is run in a different system! Is the system good, compared to what UK/US has? Who knows? Who even cares? Because there is absolutely NO WAY to test on this hypothesis and to prove it. It is like telling yourself you will become a millionaire, if you have done this, this and that. The statement is false and can never be proved, because it can never happen! Relevance to Villa takeover: I dont know if Xia and Recon has state really backing them up. It is likely IMO. But even it has, directly or indirectly, the government in China will not say that (they will not deny either). Why, if you ask? It is simple logic - If China is thought to be monstorous, evil, corrupted with awful human rights record (I strongly disagree with that, although it often is claimed by some journalists working for CNN/BCC and people who make judgement based on a few youtube video clips but never been to China), every overseas investment by them being called as 'invading the world', and most often any chinese can be linked to such imagenary picture by some un-educated people (I got bad experience on this, trust me), is Chinese government so stupid and say: hey, England, I am coming to buy your clubs! And this is the start of our ambition! They certainly aren't thick! Edited May 21, 2016 by Deisler123 20 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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