Villa Park redevelopment

[CosmicVillan]

5 hours ago, A38villan said:

I always thought a redevelopment similar to the Lucas oil stadium would look beautiful

I think something along those lines would be far more iconic and in keeping with our history than the modern bowls everyone else is having. Some round windows, stained glass etc. 

[CosmicVillan]

1 hour ago, brommy said:

It certainly h, but what does it look like actually being outside it? 

https://www.google.com/maps/@39.7590141,-86.1656401,3a,75y,62h,103.72t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1s79kCdFxB_rORjjalpZkPzA!2e0!7i13312!8i6656

 

[DaveAV1]

3 hours ago, Junxs said:

^That's one ugly stadium. Looks more like a factory from the outside

Yeah but we’d make a fortune from letting it out for the set of some sort of dystopian sci-fi film. 

[brommy]

Thanks. I’m still unsure. I need someone to buy me return flights*, to be sure.

 

* in business or first, of course.

[dont_do_it_doug.]

It is rarely considered that we could build over Witton Lane. Why is this? 

[Mark Albrighton]

4 minutes ago, dont_do_it_doug. said:

It is rarely considered that we could build over Witton Lane. Why is this? 

The issue of right to light for the neighbouring houses would be my guess.

I agree though, if it wasn’t an issue it’s an option that could be considered. 

[brommy]

11 hours ago, dont_do_it_doug. said:

It is rarely considered that we could build over Witton Lane. Why is this? 

As Shropshire Lad posted, natural light to the houses would be significantly reduced. I remember it being referenced under previous planning considerations back around the 90s. Perhaps modern construction techniques could incorporate sufficient glass or clear material to negate the issue but I strongly suspect only compulsory purchase of the houses would do. Probably not going to happen.

Regarding those who think the existing land of Villa Park could easily accommodate a much larger stadium, whilst the length of the site is decent (Holte Pub to Villa Store/Academy), it’s surprisingly hemmed in width by Aston Park, Nelson Road houses and Witton Lane houses. Birmingham City Council will take some convincing to force the compulsory purchase of the houses and/or agree to reduce the Aston Park bordering the heritage protected Aston Hall.

I don’t feel a new site for a new stadium is appropriate or really needed. Should we cement our PL future over the next 3 seasons or so, there appears to be enough space to incorporate a new ‘super stand’ where the North Stand is. 50,000 stadium capacity sounds about right. Much more than 50,000 and the view from the back would be terrible (I think I once read of a maximum distance permitted,(perhaps recommended), for seats to be from the ‘sporting arena’). Much less than 50,000 would seem a pointless expense other than improving facilities, albeit much needed.

EDIT: I’d actually like the total capacity to be around 51 or 52 thousand, just so the actual attendances, after segregation and other limitations, can be announced at 50 thousand and something. That would be special, at least in the modern era/my 33 years of attending.

Edited August 6, 2019 by brommy
‘Wilton’ typo!

[Kiwivillan]

4 hours ago, Junxs said:

^That's one ugly stadium. Looks more like a factory from the outside

I thought of this when I saw it

https://www.amazon.com/Floyd-Animals-Poster-Frame-24508-PSA009377/dp/B072VV6K1H

[arkasaurus]

13 hours ago, KevinRichardsonsMoustache said:

Was digging around the internet and found this 2014 mock up:

 

https://3dwarehouse.sketchup.com/model/4e05a6c27f706e74c3edfd0fc64d8d90/Villa-Park-Expansion

 

The write-up states:

'Starting point was DizzyHarsh's Villa Park model. Demolished the North Stand and based the floor plan of the new stand on the current Trinity Road Stand. Both corners are in-filled also - should take the overall capacity to around the 50,000 mark as well as adding additional executive suites between the upper and lower tiers and in the corners'

 

The corners look...quite odd here. And you can see how things are hemmed in by Witton Lane. Having said that, it's nice to play around with visualisations like this.

 

It's quite a dramatic difference when looking from the inside. Would be a great improvement.

[The Fun Factory]

14 minutes ago, brommy said:

As Shropshire Lad posted, natural light to the houses would be significantly reduced. I remember it being referenced under previous planning considerations back around the 90s. Perhaps modern construction techniques could incorporate sufficient glass or clear material to negate the issue but I strongly suspect only compulsory purchase of the houses would do. Probably not going to happen.

Regarding those who think the existing land of Villa Park could easily accommodate a much larger stadium, whilst the length of the site is decent (Holte Pub to Villa Store/Academy), it’s surprisingly hemmed in width by Aston Park, Nelson Road houses and Wilton Lane houses. Birmingham City Council will take some convincing to force the compulsory purchase of the houses and/or agree to reduce the Aston Park bordering the heritage protected Aston Hall.

I don’t feel a new site for a new stadium is appropriate or really needed. Should we cement our PL future over the next 3 seasons or so, there appears to be enough space to incorporate a new ‘super stand’ where the North Stand is. 50,000 stadium capacity sounds about right. Much more than 50,000 and the view from the back would be terrible (I think I once read of a maximum distance permitted,(perhaps recommended), for seats to be from the ‘sporting arena’). Much less than 50,000 would seem a pointless expense other than improving facilities, albeit much needed.

EDIT: I’d actually like the total capacity to be around 51 or 52 thousand, just so the actual attendances, after segregation and other limitations, can be announced at 50 thousand and something. That would be special, at least in the modern era/my 33 years of attending.

I mostly agree but the real money for corporate and expensive seating are always the side stands. And before you say so yes I prefer behind the goal but the premium seating at football is always side on.  Look at the new spuds ground- massive end stand and the shelf has gone. So rebuilding the North Stand whilst would bring in revenue, will never be as lucrative as the Trinity Road. 

However if we continue to grow in the right direction a refurbishment and expansion at Villa Park seems a sensible option. At this rate a new north stand will be about the same price as half a dozen decent players.

[Mark Albrighton]

29 minutes ago, brommy said:

As Shropshire Lad posted, natural light to the houses would be significantly reduced. I remember it being referenced under previous planning considerations back around the 90s. Perhaps modern construction techniques could incorporate sufficient glass or clear material to negate the issue but I strongly suspect only compulsory purchase of the houses would do. Probably not going to happen.

Regarding those who think the existing land of Villa Park could easily accommodate a much larger stadium, whilst the length of the site is decent (Holte Pub to Villa Store/Academy), it’s surprisingly hemmed in width by Aston Park, Nelson Road houses and Wilton Lane houses. Birmingham City Council will take some convincing to force the compulsory purchase of the houses and/or agree to reduce the Aston Park bordering the heritage protected Aston Hall.

Looking at it, you could possibly extend out a bit and get away with it. But I’d be surprised if you could span the entire road and it not be a problem, like the Trinity does. What’s that distance between the stand and the fence line - 30m maybe?

I don’t know what that would mean for the road, would that need to be moved as well, losing a bit of green space isn’t ideal.

Something needs doing with the Witton, where I was sat in the Holte here, you couldn’t see the corner flag in North Stand/Witton corner. 

Oh as a side note, yes, I did take the picture because I liked the elderly fella turning up to watch the game on the big screen outside on the green. I like to believe he’s been doing that for years. For those interested, drab game, Sherwood era, lost 1-0 to Swansea in the 87th minute. The signs were already there. 

Edited August 5, 2019 by Shropshire Lad

[brommy]

1 minute ago, The Fun Factory said:

I mostly agree but the real money for corporate and expensive seating are always the side stands. And before you say so yes I prefer behind the goal but the premium seating at football is always side on.  Look at the new spuds ground- massive end stand and the shelf has gone. So rebuilding the North Stand whilst would bring in revenue, will never be as lucrative as the Trinity Road. 

However if we continue to grow in the right direction a refurbishment and expansion at Villa Park seems a sensible option. At this rate a new north stand will be about the same price as half a dozen decent players.

Agreed, but with the aforementioned space restrictions along both pitch sides, rebuilding of the North Stand seems the only reasonable expansion option, even given the reduction in the most lucrative corporate views. Even without being ‘top dollar’ it would still offer a significant increase over the existing North Stand corporate facilities/income. Plus an extra 8 to 10 thousand seats isn’t to be sniffed at, even without being able to charge corporate rates.

[brommy]

8 minutes ago, Shropshire Lad said:

Looking at it, you could possibly extend out a bit and get away with it. But I’d be surprised if you could span the entire road and it not be a problem, like the Trinity does. What’s that distance between the stand and the fence line - 30m maybe?

I don’t know what that would mean for the road, would that need to be moved as well, losing a bit of green space isn’t ideal.

Something needs doing with the Witton, where I was sat in the Holte here, you couldn’t see the corner flag in North Stand/Witton corner. 

Oh as a side note, yes, I did take the picture because I liked the elderly fella turning up to watch the game on the big screen. I like to believe he’s been doing that for years. For those interested,  drab game, Sherwood era, lost 1-0 to Swansea in the 87th minute. The signs were already there. 

 

Love your thought about ‘the old guy’. 

I don’t think space is the main issue (although incorporating the road would compromise the interior space of the stand). The big issue is, by building closer to the houses and no doubt upwards, the natural light for those houses would be reduced, from mid morning right up until the sun went down. Whether Villa could get the Council and residents to agree to ‘pinching’ around half the width of the road and thus restrict the light loss to a minimum is debatable. It would still mean the residents losing their park area (to the road diversion) and restrict the additional seat numbers to a point it may not be worth it.

[Davkaus]

As much as it might benefit the club,  the idea of forcing people out of their homes for the sake of a slightly higher stadium capacity seems grotesque, and I'd hope the council wouldn't even consider it. 

Edited August 6, 2019 by Davkaus

[nick76]

8 hours ago, arkasaurus said:

It's quite a dramatic difference when looking from the inside. Would be a great improvement.

That just seems a waste of the corners with the big screen and executive boxes.  

Surely a screen could be incorporated into the north stand roof like some of newer stadiums around the world and a better design for executive boxes, maybe second row in the main north stand.  That would leave more room for seats and maybe an extra 2000 seats or so.

[thabucks]

13 hours ago, Junxs said:

^That's one ugly stadium. Looks more like a factory from the outside

It’s supposed to, it’s a nod to the historical buildings in the city. 

[DaveAV1]

3 minutes ago, thabucks said:

It’s supposed to, it’s a nod to the historical buildings in the city. 

In exactly the same way that St. Andrews, appearing like a pig sty, reflects on it’s inhabitants. 

[dont_do_it_doug.]

1 hour ago, Davkaus said:

As much as it might benefit the club,  the idea of forcing people out of their homes for the sake of a slightly higher stadium capacity seems grotesque, and I'd hope the council wouldn't even consider it. 

Yep. My question has been answered. 

Taking away people's access to basic requirements like light and grass is definitely not something I want my club involved in. Nor am I remotely interested in knocking down houses for the sake of a few thousand extra fans when there is plenty of scalability on our existing site for a 50,000 seater stadium. 

[Mic09]

5 minutes ago, dont_do_it_doug. said:

Yep. My question has been answered. 

Taking away people's access to basic requirements like light and grass is definitely not something I want my club involved in. Nor am I remotely interested in knocking down houses for the sake of a few thousand extra fans when there is plenty of scalability on our existing site for a 50,000 seater stadium. 

How about offering people money above market rate to move houses and make it entirely their decision?

I guess that should we offer 250-300k for each, people living there would rather take the deal? 

[dont_do_it_doug.]

8 minutes ago, Mic09 said:

How about offering people money above market rate to move houses and make it entirely their decision?

I guess that should we offer 250-300k for each, people living there would rather take the deal? 

Sure. But if just one person doesn't want to go then that's the end of it.