HanoiVillan Posted June 9, 2018 Share Posted June 9, 2018 10 minutes ago, flashingqwerty said: the 'facts' are that we dont know who is responsible for the events of the last few days and until we do i am not going to judge and/or slander anyone. It's not at all unusual, in situations where the survival of a business has been put at risk by massive disasters like unpaid tax bills and winding up orders, to blame the Chairman and the Chief Executive Officer. Ultimately, as the most senior positions in the business, matters that jeopardise the existence of the business are their responsibility. Of course, it could be the case that one of them is entirely responsible for the issue and the other not at all, but that seems pretty unlikely, not least since they appear to have agreed on the club's financial strategy until very recently. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flashingqwerty Posted June 9, 2018 VT Supporter Share Posted June 9, 2018 5 minutes ago, snowychap said: That's conjecture. I've 'been so inclined to actually look at the accounts'. Thanks. so when i said 'excluding this year as they havent been published yet' you took that as what? you said what has been posted about our past accounts is conjecture but its not its a matter of record. i can also back up the 17m figure with published evidence. so whilst the number may not be 100% accurate it certainly wont be far from the mark. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flashingqwerty Posted June 9, 2018 VT Supporter Share Posted June 9, 2018 9 minutes ago, HanoiVillan said: It's not at all unusual, in situations where the survival of a business has been put at risk by massive disasters like unpaid tax bills and winding up orders, to blame the Chairman and the Chief Executive Officer. Ultimately, as the most senior positions in the business, matters that jeopardise the existence of the business are their responsibility. Of course, it could be the case that one of them is entirely responsible for the issue and the other not at all, but that seems pretty unlikely, not least since they appear to have agreed on the club's financial strategy until very recently. with all due respect we do not know the winding up order was ever a possibility. we also do not know that xia was aware of the pulling forward of transfer fees and a number of other items being bandied around by the media. i certainly wont be calling xia or wyness crooks, liars or whatever else until i have the facts. because until the facts are out to do so is nothing more than slander. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
briny_ear Posted June 9, 2018 Share Posted June 9, 2018 1 minute ago, flashingqwerty said: with all due respect we do not know the winding up order was ever a possibility. we also do not know that xia was aware of the pulling forward of transfer fees and a number of other items being bandied around by the media. i certainly wont be calling xia or wyness crooks, liars or whatever else until i have the facts. because until the facts are out to do so is nothing more than slander. I haven’t been following this thread slavishly, so I haven't actually seen anyone call Wyness and Xia “crooks, liars or what ever else”. Certainly no-one seems to be suggesting anything like that in the discussion over the last 2-3 pages. Do you think you might be making excessive reference to these comments? You seem to be using them as a means to try to close down any comment about the dubious and uncertain financial position the club appears to be in. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hippo Posted June 10, 2018 Share Posted June 10, 2018 8 hours ago, paul1984 said: I find it's best to reply to one persons post rather than make the same point to multiple replies so I am replying to this one as its more detailed. Yes we have lost parachute payments this season they were 8 million less than they were the year before and next season they are 18 million less than this season so its 41m to 33m to 15m Last season we spent 84.6m on transfers and recouped 45.9m so a net spend of 38.7m We lost according to the accounts was 14.5m. This means we only recorded a net loss of 14.5m even though we had a net spend of 38.7m, that's a 24.2m difference So these are the known facts.... So what changed since then? We spent 2.8m on players and recouped 17.8m. so a net gain of 15m (this doesn't include Jordan Amavi's permanent transfer fee which will be made later on) We know the parachute payments went down 8m from 41 to 33m We also know we brought 5 loan players in and JT What we don't know is how much in wages we contributed towards the loan players or exactly what JT was paid but it is thought to be 3.5m for the year. Now its THOUGHT that we could have paid those loan players & JT 15m in wages but its unknown but for assumption lets assume its so. Lets also assume all the players that left over that summer (Amavi, Veretout, Sanchez etc) got paid nothing the year before to make this more simple. So we have a net gain 15m in player sales but we spent that on wages for JT and the loan players so thats now neutral and we are left with an 8m loss in parachute payments to deal with. How ever lets throw something else in the mix that 24.2m difference the year before... whats that down to? does it count for this year? how much was saved in wages of those players we sold this year? Then there is the couple of million for the rights to bodymoor. I know this is fag packet maths but it hardly looks cataclysmic. Next year we lose 18m in parachute money but we also lost 18m in wages of JT, loan players and Gabby. people in the press have been saying Xia has been propping us up with 5m per month but we only lost 14.5m last year and he wouldn't be allowed to do that due to FFP Now I could be wrong but it doesnt seem like I am and I'm really not worried. Ok ...good answer. I still beleive we are firmly in the shite. my big fears (based on not much) are that:- Xia - purchased with us with loans - and those rates are starting to kick in now... Does Xia actually own us ...or is he the front man for some money lending corparation. ......recall what that leeds fan told us...ropey owners will do creative accounting ! Overall i havent trusted xia from the off - he has told many lies, theme park, available funds, that he was coming to live in uk.......... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HanoiVillan Posted June 10, 2018 Share Posted June 10, 2018 25 minutes ago, flashingqwerty said: with all due respect we do not know the winding up order was ever a possibility. we also do not know that xia was aware of the pulling forward of transfer fees and a number of other items being bandied around by the media. i certainly wont be calling xia or wyness crooks, liars or whatever else until i have the facts. because until the facts are out to do so is nothing more than slander. We do know it was a possibility: it was issued. Had we done nothing, the club would be heading out of existence. That's how they work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Villan_of_oz Posted June 10, 2018 VT Supporter Share Posted June 10, 2018 Gotta love AVFC..... they are always giving us new reasons to not get along..... bless them. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paul1984 Posted June 10, 2018 Share Posted June 10, 2018 7 hours ago, hippo said: Ok ...good answer. I still beleive we are firmly in the shite. my big fears (based on not much) are that:- Xia - purchased with us with loans - and those rates are starting to kick in now... Does Xia actually own us ...or is he the front man for some money lending corparation. ......recall what that leeds fan told us...ropey owners will do creative accounting ! Overall i havent trusted xia from the off - he has told many lies, theme park, available funds, that he was coming to live in uk.......... Thank you, this is what I have been trying to get across. In regards to your points I don't know about any loans or if someone else owns us and I I don't think any of can know that detail. Thank you, this is what I have been trying to get across. In regards to your points I don't know about any loans or if someone else owns us and I I don't think any of can know that detail. With regards to being in the shite it depends what you classify that as. We are going to have to sell fringe players but that's normal. We are going to have to replace the loan players that were so important to us this season but we knew that already if we didn't go up. Where will they come from? More loans? Youth team? purchases? Who knows that's for the owner and manager to decide. Will we have to sell Jack to make the books balance? I don't think so. Will we have to sell Jack to bring in those frees or loan players? I think so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
srsmithusa Posted June 10, 2018 Share Posted June 10, 2018 7 hours ago, jacketspuds said: Dr Tony deserves all the criticism and honest fan comments coming his way. He is the owner of the club and the buck stops with him. He has gambled on our future, failed and has not put in place a pro-active contingency plan if we were unable to go back to the PL. Wyness is not blameless but Xia should have been well aware of our situation. We may have kept the wolf from the door but the PR impact of this week will not be good for the club. Even other clubs are now circling are better players trying to get them on the cheap. We have gone from having a chance of PL football, to nearly men, to a shambles in 2 weeks. Unacceptable. In some final sense of course you are right the buck (or the pound) always stops at the top. But I wonder if Wyness might be the British knowledgeable “expert” that kept reassuring the Dr that Bruce was the promotion specialist who would pull it off if given backing..... and talked the Dr out of canning Bruce months ago and continuing to back him because of the (false) assurances that it was a sure thing with our strength of squad and manager. Tony, being Chinese (wrongly) decided to trust those he hired with British football expertise. Again, ultimately it’s on him, but I wonder how strongly he may have been pressured down the primrose path. He may be merely naive and snookered by people he assumed had greater expertise. Or he could be a fraud and hustler and charlatain. I think we’ll each assume whatever suits our biases best. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Villan4Life Posted June 10, 2018 Share Posted June 10, 2018 (edited) With Tony Coton going to Sunderland (he was on about 100k a year at Villa) there is no one doing UK Scouting now for first team. Obviously i been at St MIrren as first team scout 7 months and would love to do the first team scouting for Villa always been my dream since i was about 8 lol I have tried again, can anyone on twitter leave bit of feedback for me @sir_gary_cahill, @TheAuthority or anyone else by replying and tagging Tony in as thought i'd try again offering my servies for free i dont want Villa pay me anything lol Just want help club i love with some smart transfers at good prices i know i'm begging LOL he won't bother replying or hearing me out but proper scared for next season with recruitment as we need to get this right now!! Edited June 10, 2018 by Villan4Life 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheAuthority Posted June 10, 2018 VT Supporter Share Posted June 10, 2018 4 minutes ago, Villan4Life said: With Tony Coton going to Sunderland (he was on about 100k a year at Villa) there is no one doing UK Scouting now for first team. Obviously i been at St MIrren as first team scout 7 months and would love to do the first team scouting for Villa always been my dream since i was about 8 lol I have tried again, can anyone on twitter leave bit of feedback for me @sir_gary_cahill, @TheAuthority or anyone else by replying and tagging Tony in as thought i'd try again offering my servies for free i dont want Villa pay me anything lol Just want help club i love with some smart transfers at good prices Please feel free to ignore this because of course I have no standing in the game what so ever but here's my 2 cents and please take it as it's meant to be because I would love you to be scouting for AVFC Get a professional headshot for yourself in a suit. Use it for your twitter feed and get a small website. It only needs to be 3 pages but they are just business cards these days. Have a welcome page, your professional cv, contact, and an about me page - with your philosophy/goals and dreams etc. I didn't read your twitter feed a lot but it seems like a good mix of the personal and professional. I would just bump up the professional stuff. For example maybe every day have a "My daily player mention." I've watched player X several times and at 19 years old his best attributes are xxxxxxx. He would be great for a League 1 club looking to develop a solid young fullback/striker/midfielder and could be ready for the Championship at 21 if he carries on improving at his current rate. Like I said feel free to ignore the complete novice here if that sounds stupid but if Tim Sherwood can blag a job there is no reason someone who is qualified like you shouldn't get one!. We are all in the gig economy these days so you have to present yourself as a freelancer across all social media platforms! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Villan4Life Posted June 10, 2018 Popular Post Share Posted June 10, 2018 (edited) 8 minutes ago, TheAuthority said: Please feel free to ignore this because of course I have no standing in the game what so ever but here's my 2 cents and please take it as it's meant to be because I would love you to be scouting for AVFC Get a professional headshot for yourself in a suit. Use it for your twitter feed and get a small website. It only needs to be 3 pages but they are just business cards these days. Have a welcome page, your professional cv, contact, and an about me page - with your philosophy/goals and dreams etc. I didn't read your twitter feed a lot but it seems like a good mix of the personal and professional. I would just bump up the professional stuff. For example maybe every day have a "My daily player mention." I've watched player X several times and at 19 years old his best attributes are xxxxxxx. He would be great for a League 1 club looking to develop a solid young fullback/striker/midfielder and could be ready for the Championship at 21 if he carries on improving at his current rate. Like I said feel free to ignore the complete novice here if that sounds stupid but if Tim Sherwood can blag a job there is no reason someone who is qualified like you shouldn't get one!. We are all in the gig economy these days so you have to present yourself as a freelancer across all social media platforms! I'l never forget Paul Lambert mate the absolute shithouse i emailed him a few years back as i had watched a then 19 year old playmaker called Hakim Ziyech he was available for 2.5mil he had played 8 games for Heerenveen at time and 4 assists.. i said he will go on to be world class and gave some points. When i went email him again on offchance i found he had blocked my email and bounced back.. Ziyech is worth around £40mil now and one of the best players in Holland!! I went to Jamie Vardy academy yesterday and picked out 4 players out of the 42.. then saw on scout chat a few experiened scouts had picked same 4 as me lol!! so shows im getting right idea I was two rows behind the Vardy's with Becky taking selfies all day Edited June 10, 2018 by Villan4Life 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DCJonah Posted June 10, 2018 Share Posted June 10, 2018 Thanks @flashingqwertyfor adding credit to my xia/trump supporter comparison. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DCJonah Posted June 10, 2018 Share Posted June 10, 2018 3 hours ago, paul1984 said: Thank you, this is what I have been trying to get across. In regards to your points I don't know about any loans or if someone else owns us and I I don't think any of can know that detail. With regards to being in the shite it depends what you classify that as. We are going to have to sell fringe players but that's normal. We are going to have to replace the loan players that were so important to us this season but we knew that already if we didn't go up. Where will they come from? More loans? Youth team? purchases? Who knows that's for the owner and manager to decide. Will we have to sell Jack to make the books balance? I don't think so. Will we have to sell Jack to bring in those frees or loan players? I think so. You make reference to a lot of FFP issues, which i think most fans had accepted would take place, however even that seems to be much worse than the club led us to believe. The financial issues that concern me are not about complying with FFP. Its the finances that allow the club to run that worries me. If Xia is having to continue to secure loans so that the club can just function, to me that doesn't seem a secure long term strategy. And if this is the case, then clearly his huge wealth, which no one seems to be able to find out about, is not what it seems. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vive_La_Villa Posted June 10, 2018 Share Posted June 10, 2018 5 hours ago, Villan4Life said: With Tony Coton going to Sunderland (he was on about 100k a year at Villa) there is no one doing UK Scouting now for first team. Obviously i been at St MIrren as first team scout 7 months and would love to do the first team scouting for Villa always been my dream since i was about 8 lol I have tried again, can anyone on twitter leave bit of feedback for me @sir_gary_cahill, @TheAuthority or anyone else by replying and tagging Tony in as thought i'd try again offering my servies for free i dont want Villa pay me anything lol Just want help club i love with some smart transfers at good prices i know i'm begging LOL he won't bother replying or hearing me out but proper scared for next season with recruitment as we need to get this right now!! Who do you think we should try and sign this summer on the cheap? Villa aside any good players to look out for in the World Cup? You seem like you know your stuff. Are there any other threads we can talk players on? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sexbelowsound Posted June 10, 2018 Share Posted June 10, 2018 I’ve come to the conclusion that if Tony decides to sell Jack and Chester to make up the shortfall then he might as well **** off anyway. He won’t have the backing from the fans if he does that. Either sell up or find another way around it Tony. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vreitti Posted June 10, 2018 Share Posted June 10, 2018 8 minutes ago, Vive_La_Villa said: Who do you think we should try and sign this summer on the cheap? Villa aside any good players to look out for in the World Cup? You seem like you know your stuff. Are there any other threads we can talk players on? I can recommend you guys a really nice hotel if you like!? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vive_La_Villa Posted June 10, 2018 Share Posted June 10, 2018 8 minutes ago, sexbelowsound said: I’ve come to the conclusion that if Tony decides to sell Jack and Chester to make up the shortfall then he might as well **** off anyway. He won’t have the backing from the fans if he does that. Either sell up or find another way around it Tony. What if both of these players want to leave? For Chester he is not going to have many more chances to play at the highest level. For Grealish he needs to think of his future. If the price is right and both players want out surely we have to sell. No point in keeping unhappy players no matter how good they are. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sexbelowsound Posted June 10, 2018 Share Posted June 10, 2018 (edited) 3 hours ago, Vive_La_Villa said: What if both of these players want to leave? For Chester he is not going to have many more chances to play at the highest level. For Grealish he needs to think of his future. If the price is right and both players want out surely we have to sell. No point in keeping unhappy players no matter how good they are. I’m surprised that a Villa fan goes towards the negative end of conjecture when it comes to our players. IF both players want out then yes, of course we sell, but that would be highly convenient given the financial situation we are in. Edited June 10, 2018 by sexbelowsound 1 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sexbelowsound Posted June 10, 2018 Share Posted June 10, 2018 (edited) Double Post Edited June 10, 2018 by sexbelowsound iPhones!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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