DCJonah Posted June 9, 2018 Share Posted June 9, 2018 2 minutes ago, Jareth said: I saw that, it's entirely speculative, and slanderous, raising the spectre that Tony is a money launderer - that's all fine to raise if there is a smoking gun or a whistle blower or in fact anything - it also has a high possibility of being a smear. I may be wrong, so again, please cut and paste the bit which proves Tony's dishonesty. I haven't claimed that any such thing exists. When i look at the opinion of a few that know more about chinese business, look back at the questions asked, that he was unable to prove, when he purchased the club and the facts we now know, it leads me to become more concerned that his dishonesty is a major reason for our problems. If you want to take the perfectly sane approach, shared by die hard trump supporters, of ignoring everything and having full faith in him because you really like him, that is entirely your choice. There is really nothing to discuss. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jareth Posted June 9, 2018 VT Supporter Share Posted June 9, 2018 7 minutes ago, DCJonah said: look back at the questions asked, that he was unable to prove, when he purchased the club and the facts we now know Please demonstrate Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DCJonah Posted June 9, 2018 Share Posted June 9, 2018 1 minute ago, Jareth said: Please demonstrate In all honesty, for what purpose? You aren't interested in anything that questions him. And just as I would have no interest trying to convince a trump supporter I have no interest in wasting my time trying to convince you. Like i said, if you want to base your opinion on you just like him, then thats ok. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jareth Posted June 9, 2018 VT Supporter Share Posted June 9, 2018 Just now, DCJonah said: In all honesty, for what purpose? You aren't interested in anything that questions him. I'm very interested, because I'd like to know if the opinion I have formulated by myself, is wrong or misguided. I am desperate for some factual evidence either way, so please help me make my mind up. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DCJonah Posted June 9, 2018 Share Posted June 9, 2018 3 minutes ago, Jareth said: I'm very interested, because I'd like to know if the opinion I have formulated by myself, is wrong or misguided. I am desperate for some factual evidence either way, so please help me make my mind up. I wish i believed you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jareth Posted June 9, 2018 VT Supporter Share Posted June 9, 2018 Just now, DCJonah said: I wish i believed you. I don't mind, if you don't want to show your reasoning for the 'Tony is dishonest' comment, I'm certainly not trying to change your mind. It would be helpful to back it up, but I'm sure there are reasons why you choose not to. Marathon Q&A is over, mon ami! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DCJonah Posted June 9, 2018 Share Posted June 9, 2018 2 minutes ago, Jareth said: I don't mind, if you don't want to show your reasoning for the 'Tony is dishonest' comment, I'm certainly not trying to change your mind. It would be helpful to back it up, but I'm sure there are reasons why you choose not to. Marathon Q&A is over, mon ami! Well when @TheEgo was asking very reasonable questions and sharing very reasonable opinions, you insulted him and had to apologise. That doesn't strike me as the actions of someone who wants to learn more to help form their opinion. I'd rather not experience the same. Good chat though. I'll leave it there. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jareth Posted June 9, 2018 VT Supporter Share Posted June 9, 2018 Just now, DCJonah said: Well when @TheEgo was asking very reasonable questions and sharing very reasonable opinions, you insulted him and had to apologise. That doesn't strike me as the actions of someone who wants to learn more to help form their opinion. I'd rather not experience the same. Good chat though. I'll leave it there. You live and learn, I've made a promise to myself to stay within the rules so I have only love for you man! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DCJonah Posted June 9, 2018 Share Posted June 9, 2018 2 minutes ago, Jareth said: You live and learn, I've made a promise to myself to stay within the rules so I have only love for you man! Right back at you. Might strongly disagree with you but hugs all round. We have to live through this hell together. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jacketspuds Posted June 9, 2018 Share Posted June 9, 2018 Dr Tony deserves all the criticism and honest fan comments coming his way. He is the owner of the club and the buck stops with him. He has gambled on our future, failed and has not put in place a pro-active contingency plan if we were unable to go back to the PL. Wyness is not blameless but Xia should have been well aware of our situation. We may have kept the wolf from the door but the PR impact of this week will not be good for the club. Even other clubs are now circling are better players trying to get them on the cheap. We have gone from having a chance of PL football, to nearly men, to a shambles in 2 weeks. Unacceptable. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tinker Posted June 9, 2018 VT Supporter Share Posted June 9, 2018 1 hour ago, Londonastonvilla said: I think it is too early to judge Tony. The team that got relegated in 2016 was a disgrace if that team hadn't been rebuilt we would be where Sunderland are.Did we spend too much rebuilding ?Probably but if we were mid table this season everyone would be saying the owner should be doing more .Very few people at the time had a good word to say about Doug Ellis because he kept a tight control of transfer spending.When he sold everyone was rejoicing about having a new owner .That has turned into nightmare.Becareful about what you wish for. The strange part about that team, for me, is a that the individual players have turned out to be a lot better than the results we had. For me we was mismanaged on the playing front rather than the overall business plan of buying young and talented. Break down the individuals and most of them have gone on to out perform what they did for us . Our major weakness, for me , was goalkeeper and the center of defense. Back to Xia......he's out of his depth regardless of his intent or ability to finance it all. I think he knew that and that's why he brought in Jaba the hut. Jaba took advantage of Xia nievaty and let RDM and Bruce over extended us with short termism on the player front. From their actions he must have instructed both mangers to guarantee promotion, RDM brought attacking minded players and Bruce brought , or financed defensive players. It's Lerner MK2 , we need a Levy type figure who understands football at that level. The owner needs to have the business sense to see it or have trusted people who can.Xia trusted Jaba and that alone for me is a big enough mistake for him to be questioned. The warning signs were clear for anyone who did due diligence to see, end of. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vive_La_Villa Posted June 9, 2018 Share Posted June 9, 2018 1 hour ago, DCJonah said: I haven't claimed that any such thing exists. When i look at the opinion of a few that know more about chinese business, look back at the questions asked, that he was unable to prove, when he purchased the club and the facts we now know, it leads me to become more concerned that his dishonesty is a major reason for our problems. If you want to take the perfectly sane approach, shared by die hard trump supporters, of ignoring everything and having full faith in him because you really like him, that is entirely your choice. There is really nothing to discuss. I don’t want to take this off topic but you’ve mentioned Trump quite a few times. His supporters generally don’t have faith in Trump because they like him. It’s because of his policies. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
briny_ear Posted June 9, 2018 Share Posted June 9, 2018 11 minutes ago, Vive_La_Villa said: I don’t want to take this off topic but you’ve mentioned Trump quite a few times. His supporters generally don’t have faith in Trump because they like him. It’s because of his policies. It’s absolutely not. They support him because they feel he reaches out direct to them and talks their language (the skill needed by any successful demagogue). Talk to Trump supporters and see how many think there is actually going to be a wall between USA & Mexico, that the Mexicans will pay for. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
7392craig Posted June 9, 2018 Share Posted June 9, 2018 9 minutes ago, Vive_La_Villa said: I don’t want to take this off topic but you’ve mentioned Trump quite a few times. His supporters generally don’t have faith in Trump because they like him. It’s because of his policies. Agreed. I’m a supporter of Trump but not because he’s a likeable person, I like his staunch patriotism. I like that you get an actual opinion out of him rather than a political answer, and yes I rather like a lot of his policies. Back on topic, I’m very concerned with the silence on behalf of the Dr. But as other have said, it may be a bit early for a statement with any substance. I want actual answers to our predicament, possibly I’m being a bit impatient due to our circumstances. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DCJonah Posted June 9, 2018 Share Posted June 9, 2018 31 minutes ago, Vive_La_Villa said: I don’t want to take this off topic but you’ve mentioned Trump quite a few times. His supporters generally don’t have faith in Trump because they like him. It’s because of his policies. My comparison with trump and xia, in terms of support, is that they don't seem to want to acknowledge any evidence, are massively defensive of him for no real reason and it all seems mindless loyalty. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vive_La_Villa Posted June 9, 2018 Share Posted June 9, 2018 22 minutes ago, DCJonah said: My comparison with trump and xia, in terms of support, is that they don't seem to want to acknowledge any evidence, are massively defensive of him for no real reason and it all seems mindless loyalty. Fair enough but that’s supporters in general. Whether that be football or politics. In terms of Xia I don’t think he is left with many supporting him. The few that defend him seem very much in the minority. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paul1984 Posted June 9, 2018 Share Posted June 9, 2018 33 minutes ago, Vive_La_Villa said: Fair enough but that’s supporters in general. Whether that be football or politics. In terms of Xia I don’t think he is left with many supporting him. The few that defend him seem very much in the minority. I think a lot of people perceived to be defending him are just not jumping on the band wagon of believing what they read in the paper when a lot of it is demonstrably not true. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hippo Posted June 9, 2018 Share Posted June 9, 2018 2 minutes ago, paul1984 said: I think a lot of people perceived to be defending him are just not jumping on the band wagon of believing what they read in the paper when a lot of it is demonstrably not true. When Xia himself said the financial situation is 'Very Severe' - What did expect people to think ? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jacketspuds Posted June 9, 2018 Share Posted June 9, 2018 10 minutes ago, paul1984 said: I think a lot of people perceived to be defending him are just not jumping on the band wagon of believing what they read in the paper when a lot of it is demonstrably not true. Who knows what is and isnt true apart from Xia and a few others? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paul1984 Posted June 9, 2018 Share Posted June 9, 2018 25 minutes ago, hippo said: When Xia himself said the financial situation is 'Very Severe' - What did expect people to think ? I expect them if they are worried about the clubs finance to get the basics of it from last years accounts and do some simple guess work on this years..... Its severe as we have the drop in parachute payments and were losing some money already....... that's it. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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