Tony Xia (no longer involved with AVFC)

[OutByEaster?]

2 minutes ago, DaveAV1 said:

Yes the fans we’re behind getting promoted ASAP, fans of every club would have been the same. However I doubt the overwhelming support would have been the same if we were told it’s get promoted or go bust. 

But I think we knew we were in a lot of trouble if we didn't go up. I think there was a fair bit of denial about it, but I think we knew we had a one season squad and there'd be no more parachute money. Things are much worse than we'd imagined and the owner has turned out not to have the resources to pull us through it - we were mislead, but we were happy to be mislead.

 

[DaveAV1]

8 minutes ago, OutByEaster? said:

But I think we knew we were in a lot of trouble if we didn't go up. I think there was a fair bit of denial about it, but I think we knew we had a one season squad and there'd be no more parachute money. Things are much worse than we'd imagined and the owner has turned out not to have the resources to pull us through it - we were mislead, but we were happy to be mislead.

 

I agree to some extent, as you say the depth of the brown stuff we’ve found ourselves in is the issue. It looks bleak in the short and probably medium terms, but we may all look back on this and think it could have been worse. Just imagine the type of financial mire we could have got into with this lot in charge and Premier League money to burn. 

[DCJonah]

20 minutes ago, OutByEaster? said:

But I think we knew we were in a lot of trouble if we didn't go up. I think there was a fair bit of denial about it, but I think we knew we had a one season squad and there'd be no more parachute money. Things are much worse than we'd imagined and the owner has turned out not to have the resources to pull us through it - we were mislead, but we were happy to be mislead.

 

I don't think that's fair. 

Yes, we knew money would be different but no way could anyone really predict this state we are now in

[Rob182]

No one could have predicted it, because none of us knew the finances.

But it’s worth adding that even with our excessive spending, large sections of the fan base called for more spending, and moaned that we weren’t being ambitious enough.

[DCJonah]

10 minutes ago, Rob182 said:

No one could have predicted it, because none of us knew the finances.

But it’s worth adding that even with our excessive spending, large sections of the fan base called for more spending, and moaned that we weren’t being ambitious enough.

I honestly don't remember many views like that. But as you say, fans were not aware of the full picture, the ones that were should have ensured their was a sustainable plan. Surely that's priority number 1 when running a business. 

[PompeyVillan]

I guess hindsight is a wonderful thing, but there are not many relegated teams that don't fancy their chances of being promoted again quickly. They all take a bit of a risk in that regard, but we bet everything on red and got black. 

It was stupid, and you can't say the fans were complicit. If the fans were presented with a sensible plan to rebuild the club organically, but with investment in infrastructure, scouting and youth, you'd have had plenty of grumbles but no revolt. If it was presented by a new owner who didn't claim to be flush, but with some experience of football, I think we'd have rolled with it. 

I think Dr Tony was accepted because we believed that he was a benefactor willing to bankroll the club to success. And he acted like one. Turns out he wasn't and isn't. 

I'd agree that 'anyone' isn't better Dr Tony, which is why I want more fan involvement in the club. In not really sure what that means or how it happens, I'm just sick to my back teeth of foreign owners with promises of big bucks. All mouth and no trousers. 

[vreitti]

10 minutes ago, Rob182 said:

No one could have predicted it, because none of us knew the finances.

But it’s worth adding that even with our excessive spending, large sections of the fan base called for more spending, and moaned that we weren’t being ambitious enough.

"The spending" was necessary, but too much was spent on the wrong kind, sadly. Also trusting the 'bruce approach', was another huge mistake, which too was quite evident after his first (half)season.

[hippo]

The chairman or owner isn't fan - he shouldn't behave like one. Fans will always scream for millions to be spent. The chairman has to be firm in these situations. The only possible thing in his defence is that on relegation there was the grand total of f all to work with on the playing side. As such money which should have been spent pushing us on had to be spent bringing us onto a even keel.

The gamble with loans should never be repeated - its dead money. We could have brought lesser or younger players, they wouldn't have cost as much in wages and we would have something sell on. What we did was like one of those lease car deals - you pay £200pm for 3 years at the end of it - you have to give the car back.

[TRO]

4 hours ago, villabromsgrove said:

My own take on this is that Tony Xia has lived on his wits and other peoples money since college.

I'm a natural researcher because I have nothing better to do with my time. When Xia was announced as the prospective new Villa owner, I spent days and nights trying to find out everything on the internet regarding his attributes and the source of his 'wealth".

I know that many of you also did exactly the same thing. After countless hours I had to concede that Xia had covered his tracks so well that no concrete facts and figures could be accessed. The only thing that emerged was that the companies he dealt with were not listed on the Shanghai stock exchange but were trading through Hong Kong, ie Rui Kang, Lotus Health etc, and as these shares were quoted in Yen it could easily lead to considerable mistakes in attributing wealth.

My sons who are a lot more IT savvy than me drew the same blanks.

I believe that Xia was approached by Samuelson spinning a deal for the 'golden goose' ie AVFC. Here was an opportunity for a young man with bursting ambition and less cash than he would have wished, to take a 'safe' (that's how it would have been spun) one or maximum two year gamble on accessing the riches of the Premier League.

Xia would have been introduced to "football experts" who would have bedazzled him with a Champion's League winning manager RDM. Tony would have been coached in "sharing Lerner's vision" for the RL interview, and as an architect he would have been good at it.

Two years later it's all gone tits up for Tony. The so called experts have disappeared, and the money that Xia has desperately borrowed to hang on to his failing dream has disappeared as well.

Villa is the victim in all this.

This is only my opinion and not based on any facts because it's impossible to unearth Xia related facts. I may be totally wrong. 

my hunch is.....you are totally right.

[A'Villan]

10 hours ago, OutByEaster? said:

I think we need to remember we were complicit in this gamble.

I don't think we realised quite how weak a position we'd be in if it didn't come off - but there were very few dissenting voices when we invested all our parachute money in highly paid experienced players with little sell on value, or when we invested big chunks on loan players that we wouldn't be keeping. We all bought into the feeling that the requirement was immediate promotion and to hell with any other idea. If Xia had come in and said, "Give me four years and I can make us a solid, viable Championship club that can aim at the play offs from a firm footing" he'd have been hounded out of town or strung from a lampost. 

Of course, we can in part be forgiven on two counts; we're fans and we dream, and we hand't realised that the brown stuff was quite so close to the spinny thing - but I think it's a little bit dangerous to just point at the man who carried out the plan and say "Him bad, everything else good." I think it's an attitude that could lead us into further trouble if we're taken over. Our expectations of this football club do not match what it's able to give and it could take someone a decade to get it right - we should remember that truth if we're taken over and keep it in the back of our minds when we're demanding a couple of £20m signings.

The bad Doctor took a wild and crazy gamble with the future of the club on the basis that a quick promotion was on the table - an awful lot of the fanbase were right behind him in that.

 

 

Don't agree with this point entirely. especially not when you use the word complicit.

Supporters are not privy to the on-goings and information required to make decisions for the club. We can only take things at face value. In doing that one becomes more vulnerable to being mislead and fanciful thinking.

Exposed to the details involved and given the opportunity to make informed judgements about what is taking place at the club, I believe supporters would come to conclusions  that are fitting for the passion, pride and care they have for the club. Whilst obviously there is always going to be mistakes and flaws, I don't believe supporters would compromise the existence of the club in exchange for monetary pursuits.

Edited July 5, 2018 by A'Villan

[Villarocker]

1 hour ago, A'Villan said:

Don't agree with this point entirely. especially not when you use the word complicit.

Supporters are not privy to the on-goings and information required to make decisions for the club. We can only take things at face value. In doing that one becomes more vulnerable to being mislead and fanciful thinking.

Exposed to the details involved and given the opportunity to make informed judgements about what is taking place at the club, I believe supporters would come to conclusions  that are fitting for the passion, pride and care they have for the club. Whilst obviously there is always going to be mistakes and flaws, I don't believe supporters would compromise the existence of the club in exchange for monetary pursuits.

Spot on! 

If Xia had offered the fans, 2 years ago, we blow the money now and risk going into administration in 2 years' time or, be careful and debt free whilst trying to do the best we can to go back up, I am sure that the majority of us would have taken the latter. 

[JAMAICAN-VILLAN]

[Jareth]

All the recent events IMO don't point to the owner digging in for another season, more a case of hard bargaining to extract the best possible price - so were that the case then there must be competition for the club - regardless of what's being peddled to the press. Nursey appears to have a newly found inside track from Round -

 

[sidcow]

1 hour ago, villarocker said:

Spot on! 

If Xia had offered the fans, 2 years ago, we blow the money now and risk going into administration in 2 years' time or, be careful and debt free whilst trying to do the best we can to go back up, I am sure that the majority of us would have taken the latter. 

I come back to my post from a few seeks ago.  We should be a big draw for most of the players we signed.  They should desire to come here and player power rules.

I am certain we could have got in most of what we signed with lower signing on fees and far lower wages.

If someone similar offered me a 20% pay rise, I almost certainly go.  If they offer 20% and are a far better prospect I do whatever it takes to get there.   Why the hell are we tripling peoples wages for absolutely no reason?  Why are we paying £12m for old players with documented bad attitudes and issues?  Why are we smashing selling clubs transfer records?

There is spending a lot of money v being thrifty and there is just absolutely throwing money around completely unnecessarily, and that is the rub.

We could have spent the same amount of money and have a squad containing 7 or 8 players we could easily move on now because their signing on fees were high ish, but not double the league norm and their wages were not significantly beyond what anyone else can pay them.

It's not just the money we have blown it's the way we have blown it which has left us on the brink, and that is why Xia is culpable. 

He didn't need to know diddly squat about football to look at the profit and loss account and budget for the future and calculate how much trouble we would be in if we didn't go up.  An O level economics student could do those sums.

[HeyAnty]

57 minutes ago, Jareth said:

All the recent events IMO don't point to the owner digging in for another season, more a case of hard bargaining to extract the best possible price - so were that the case then there must be competition for the club - regardless of what's being peddled to the press. Nursey appears to have a newly found inside track from Round -

 

Nursey knows nothing.  That article was all reported yesterday morning by others.  I also think Nursey has some attachment to Spurs.  He is always trying to sensationalize Villa's recent goings on to the extent that we are going out of business the next day and then peddles the  old Spurs/Grealish going on the cheap crap.

[tomav84]

13 hours ago, OutByEaster? said:

If Xia had come in and said, "Give me four years and I can make us a solid, viable Championship club that can aim at the play offs from a firm footing" he'd have been hounded out of town or strung from a lampost. 
 

 

 

if that's all he said then yes 100% i agree. if he elaborated and said "Give me four years and I can make us a solid, viable Championship club that can aim at the play offs from a firm footing OR we can go for promotion straight away but failure would result in crippling the club financially to the point that administration would be a very real possibility" then i doubt there would have been much stringing from lampposts going on

[TheStagMan]

he has Chinese backers who want a decent return on their investment

Well, they are going to be disappointed, and we are going to be screwed!

[Only2McInallys]

The majority of people who now state we overspent and blame Xia for this mismanagement.    I hope these  are not the same people who   Wanted Bruce sacked a few months ago

[sne]

2 minutes ago, Londonastonvilla said:

The majority of people who now state we overspent and blame Xia for this mismanagement.    I hope these  are not the same people who   Wanted Bruce sacked a few months ago

Why?

[Only2McInallys]

Changing managers and employing new coaching staff and recruiting new players is going to be expensive