Deisler123 Posted June 28, 2018 Share Posted June 28, 2018 (edited) 7 hours ago, TheEgo said: This is true and thus you'e far more sensible than the rest of us. Penny for your thoughts though? What's been said in China? Still not important enough to register? Xia will 100% want to look like he hasn't lost out though won't he? Culturally we hear that this would be very important to him... I am not sure saving face is his priority now. His priority is to save his businesses in China. People sometimes take the ‘culture point’ too seriously. Why would a businessman want to save face in his side business while his main business is in huge trouble? regarding the media coverage in China, no. Very little. Only top 6 premiership clubs are newsworthy in China. And Chinese ownership of an European club is not something new so people are not quite interested. Only places where Villa/Xia’s news appear are in economy websites - for people who are investing money in stock market. In general most news about Xia in stock market since 2017 has been bad - their prices have gone down a lot. Edited June 28, 2018 by Deisler123 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TreeVillan Posted June 28, 2018 Share Posted June 28, 2018 (edited) Oh Dr Tony... Please stop with the Emoji's... You're sending our club down hill! You put the con... In emoticon.. You didn't even pay the tax bill! Edited June 28, 2018 by TreeVillan Spelling Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheEgo Posted June 28, 2018 Share Posted June 28, 2018 3 minutes ago, Deisler123 said: I am not sure saving face is his priority now. His priority is to save his businesses in China. People sometimes take the ‘culture point’ too seriously. Why would a businessman want to save face in his side business while his main business is in huge trouble? regarding the media coverage in China, no. Very little. Only top 6 premiership clubs are newsworthy in China. And Chinese ownership of an European club is not something new so people are not quite interested. Only places where Villa/Xia’s news appear are in economy websites - for people who are investing money in stock market. In general most news about Xia in stock market since 2017 has been bad - their prices have gone down a lot. Reason I asked this is because quite a big deal is been made of it here in the UK. ie her won't sell as it will look bad in China. So his main business....Teamax? Is that in huge trouble? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jareth Posted June 28, 2018 VT Supporter Share Posted June 28, 2018 9 minutes ago, Deisler123 said: I am not sure saving face is his priority now. His priority is to save his businesses in China. People sometimes take the ‘culture point’ too seriously. Why would a businessman want to save face in his side business while his main business is in huge trouble? regarding the media coverage in China, no. Very little. Only top 6 premiership clubs are newsworthy in China. And Chinese ownership of an European club is not something new so people are not quite interested. Only places where Villa/Xia’s news appear are in economy websites - for people who are investing money in stock market. In general most news about Xia in stock market since 2017 has been bad - their prices have gone down a lot. This is useful, and also puts things in perspective. I get the impression that a load of Villa fans' angst is literally last on the priority list. While this is understandable, it's also a bit negligent of a club owner - especially when the owner has given the impression that they care. Agreed on the face saving thing, very easy to fall back on stereotypes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deisler123 Posted June 28, 2018 Share Posted June 28, 2018 (edited) 14 minutes ago, TheEgo said: Reason I asked this is because quite a big deal is been made of it here in the UK. ie her won't sell as it will look bad in China. So his main business....Teamax? Is that in huge trouble? Yes. He suffered huge loss since early 2017, in the scale of 50m~80m pounds (stock market value) Edited June 28, 2018 by Deisler123 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheEgo Posted June 28, 2018 Share Posted June 28, 2018 3 minutes ago, Jareth said: This is useful, and also puts things in perspective. I get the impression that a load of Villa fans' angst is literally last on the priority list. While this is understandable, it's also a bit negligent of a club owner - especially when the owner has given the impression that they care. Agreed on the face saving thing, very easy to fall back on stereotypes. Pretty much every article has mentioned this as well as a professor who is an expert in Chinese Business, I'm not sure it's a stereotype per se. What that does tell us is our parent company is in HUGE trouble and so are we. Pretty much confirms all the 'speculation' we're f**ked if he doesn't sell as I've repeatedly insisted. Just needs to do it now. @Deisler123 What did you make of his tweet, can you provide context, with the broken English? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheEgo Posted June 28, 2018 Share Posted June 28, 2018 Just now, Deisler123 said: Yes. He suffered huge loss since early 2017, in the scale of 50m~80m pounds. Pretty much what he is losing here then. Not good at all. Needs to sell....as I just posted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deisler123 Posted June 28, 2018 Share Posted June 28, 2018 7 minutes ago, Jareth said: This is useful, and also puts things in perspective. I get the impression that a load of Villa fans' angst is literally last on the priority list. While this is understandable, it's also a bit negligent of a club owner - especially when the owner has given the impression that they care. Agreed on the face saving thing, very easy to fall back on stereotypes. It is totally justifiable for fans to be angry. Why would fans care about the owner’s business. The bad management decision was also there. So he must take the blame and the anger. Whether or not he will move on from the crisis (in terms of Villa business) is another thing though. If I were him, I will not sell at the moment. I will try to break even on finances and then try to see what happens next season. You can always argue that he should leave and sell up, but I don’t think selling at this point is a wise business decision. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deisler123 Posted June 28, 2018 Share Posted June 28, 2018 4 minutes ago, TheEgo said: Pretty much what he is losing here then. Not good at all. Needs to sell....as I just posted. No. The loss I estimated was his domestic business, not including Villa. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villakram Posted June 28, 2018 Share Posted June 28, 2018 2 minutes ago, Deisler123 said: No. The loss I estimated was his domestic business, not including Villa. When your stock drops in value you have not lost money real money. Unless of course "Dr." Xia, bought all those shares at the top. Cash out to realize gains and/or losses or else mark to fantasy and keep the plates spinning. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deisler123 Posted June 28, 2018 Share Posted June 28, 2018 6 minutes ago, TheEgo said: Pretty much every article has mentioned this as well as a professor who is an expert in Chinese Business, I'm not sure it's a stereotype per se. Whether or not that is a stereotype is not important. My point is he will not care about his face (i.e. Villa business) if his main business goes bust. 8 minutes ago, TheEgo said: What that does tell us is our parent company is in HUGE trouble and so are we. Pretty much confirms all the 'speculation' we're f**ked if he doesn't sell as I've repeatedly insisted. Just needs to do it now. Yeah. It is perhaps better IF villa can get a new owner with deep pocket and good management team. But for the crisis that the club is in, not quite sure how it is attractive to investors. From a business point of view, for Xia, selling now is perhaps not a good option. 11 minutes ago, TheEgo said: @Deisler123 What did you make of his tweet, can you provide context, with the broken English? It is simply impossible to ignore the media nowadays. So his words ‘didn’t look at news’ mean ‘don’t really bother’. And the fact that it took so long for him to respond was potentially due to : either he was busy in dealing with his main business, or he just made a major decision, which, based on the tweet itself, could be ‘i will not sell up for now and let’s see how things go in the near future. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deisler123 Posted June 28, 2018 Share Posted June 28, 2018 6 minutes ago, villakram said: When your stock drops in value you have not lost money real money. Unless of course "Dr." Xia, bought all those shares at the top. Cash out to realize gains and/or losses or else mark to fantasy and keep the plates spinning. I am not sure about that. We are talking about running major holding companies here, not as an ordinary stock investor (like you and me buying a stock in London). His business model is exactly that - he found two small listed companies and bought them so he had two ‘shells’ for reverse IPO. More importantly, He is not the sole major shareholders of the listed stock. When the price drops, every shareholder suffers. And The companies behind the stock are making loss every year. So he cannot play the ‘wait until price goes up’ games like us ordinary investors. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keener window-cleaner Posted June 28, 2018 Share Posted June 28, 2018 46 minutes ago, Deisler123 said: I am not sure saving face is his priority now. His priority is to save his businesses in China. People sometimes take the ‘culture point’ too seriously. Was about to say the same thing. And it's not like it is something good in "the western culture" to make a lot of losses or have your business go under either. You can always find some professor or analyst who makes his living on trying to explain how it works in other countries, it doesn't make it gospel. To me this saving face argument is rather ignorance, of course he doesn't want to lose face and make a lot of losses, no matter if he is English, Chinese or whatever. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keener window-cleaner Posted June 28, 2018 Share Posted June 28, 2018 (edited) Another question is if he actually can sell the club with a loss. If he bought us with loaned money (which in itself isn't anything strange) he can't really sell with a loss if he doesn't have other assets that can cover the loss. Edited June 28, 2018 by Keener window-cleaner 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jareth Posted June 28, 2018 VT Supporter Share Posted June 28, 2018 57 minutes ago, TheEgo said: Pretty much every article has mentioned this as well as a professor who is an expert in Chinese Business, I'm not sure it's a stereotype per se. And what they all have in common is that they are not Chinese articles. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villakram Posted June 28, 2018 Share Posted June 28, 2018 36 minutes ago, Deisler123 said: I am not sure about that. We are talking about running major holding companies here, not as an ordinary stock investor (like you and me buying a stock in London). His business model is exactly that - he found two small listed companies and bought them so he had two ‘shells’ for reverse IPO. More importantly, He is not the sole major shareholders of the listed stock. When the price drops, every shareholder suffers. And The companies behind the stock are making loss every year. So he cannot play the ‘wait until price goes up’ games like us ordinary investors. Ordinary investors... lol. You missed the mark to fantasy part, pay attention. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jareth Posted June 28, 2018 VT Supporter Share Posted June 28, 2018 55 minutes ago, Deisler123 said: It is totally justifiable for fans to be angry. Why would fans care about the owner’s business. The bad management decision was also there. So he must take the blame and the anger. Whether or not he will move on from the crisis (in terms of Villa business) is another thing though. If I were him, I will not sell at the moment. I will try to break even on finances and then try to see what happens next season. You can always argue that he should leave and sell up, but I don’t think selling at this point is a wise business decision. Cheers @Deisler123 - I think once again you've communicated the actual situation. Probably best that Tony does not tweet from now on, until the club is in a better position. It has been a good experiment that almost worked, the fact that it didn't has caused a lot of trouble. Not sure where we go from here, but vital now that the new CEO, or owner, or manager come out soon with a plan - because if you want the fans to have HOPE, you need to explain the plan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DCJonah Posted June 28, 2018 Share Posted June 28, 2018 7 minutes ago, Jareth said: Cheers @Deisler123 - I think once again you've communicated the actual situation. Probably best that Tony does not tweet from now on, until the club is in a better position. It has been a good experiment that almost worked, the fact that it didn't has caused a lot of trouble. Not sure where we go from here, but vital now that the new CEO, or owner, or manager come out soon with a plan - because if you want the fans to have HOPE, you need to explain the plan. Rubbish. It wasn't a good experiment, it was a gamble everything move. If i put my life savings on red and it came up black, no one would say it was a good experiment. And the fact we failed has caused issues with FFP. Our finacial issues in regards to just paying bills each month, are thanks to the terrible way we have been run 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deisler123 Posted June 28, 2018 Share Posted June 28, 2018 28 minutes ago, villakram said: Ordinary investors... lol. You missed the mark to fantasy part, pay attention. I was referring to your idea of ‘don’t lose real money as long as you don’t sell in stock market’, which is quite silly in the context of how holding companies work. Only retail investors can afford doing that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jareth Posted June 28, 2018 VT Supporter Share Posted June 28, 2018 (edited) 26 minutes ago, DCJonah said: Rubbish. It wasn't a good experiment, it was a gamble everything move. If i put my life savings on red and it came up black, no one would say it was a good experiment. And the fact we failed has caused issues with FFP. Our finacial issues in regards to just paying bills each month, are thanks to the terrible way we have been run What an entirely surprising reaction, also black would have been beneficial, a good experiment if you like. Edited June 28, 2018 by Jareth Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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