Tony Xia (no longer involved with AVFC)

[rodders0223]

3 minutes ago, Rob182 said:

It's utter bollocks that Xia is another Lerner 'throwing money at it'.

 

We've signed a load of cheap players that either have experience of Prem or Championship: Lansbury, Hourihane, Whelan, Jedinak, Bree, Elmohamady, Taylor..

 

That's not 'throwing money at it'. The most money we've spent is on our best player, Kodjia. Then we've spent significant amounts on Chester and Hogan, but three players (two of which are two of our best), isn't throwing money at it, that's a reasonable amount to spend on your best players, in the current market.

Whelan and Jedinak together are probably on north of £100k a week. For 2 more years.

 

[AshVilla]

5 minutes ago, Rob182 said:

It's utter bollocks that Xia is another Lerner 'throwing money at it'.

 

We've signed a load of cheap players that either have experience of Prem or Championship: Lansbury, Hourihane, Whelan, Jedinak, Bree, Elmohamady, Taylor..

 

That's not 'throwing money at it'. The most money we've spent is on our best player, Kodjia. Then we've spent significant amounts on Chester and Hogan, but three players (two of which are two of our best), isn't throwing money at it, that's a reasonable amount to spend on your best players, in the current market.

15 mill Hogan, 12 mill McCormack, biggest transfer fees the championship has ever seen.

1 point out of a possible 9. Manager already whining to the press that our expectation levels are too high.

He is like Lerner in the sense that he surrounds himself with people who claim to have great footballing knowledge but appoint and back completely gormless football managers.

Action needs to be taken swiftly otherwise were going to become a championship non entity for years to come and all that money he's invested will have been pissed up the wall.

 

 

Edited August 16, 2017 by AshVilla

[Stevo985]

if Xia wasn't spending money he'd get criticised for not spending.

Instead he's spending lots of money (but still keeping us within FFP regulations apparently) and he's getting criticised

[wazzap24]

7 minutes ago, AshVilla said:

Starting to think were no better off than when Lerner was here.

Still being lead by a bunch of mugs who don't know what they are doing, appointing complete failures of managers.

Throwing money at something doesn't guarantee success.

You are right, throwing money at it doesn't guarantee success, but are you really criticising the owner for spending money on the squad? 

What do you think peoples reaction would be to him if he hadn't? 

The last thing we need to be doing is starting on the owner. I agree it hasn't worked and I agree he has to look at his appointments, but the guy has done the best he can to try and get us back up quickly. A lot of clubs would kill for and owner like him. 

[Rob182]

Just now, rodders0223 said:

Whelan and Jedinak together are probably on north of £100k a week. For 2 more years.

I'd say they are on similar wages to what Newcastle were paying Matt Ritchie or Jonjo Shelvey when they were down here. Probably similar to what Burnley paid Joey Barton, or not far off what Sidwell is getting at Fulham.

 

Even if they are on your guessed 50k p/w, then that's still only £2.6m per year, which is still fairly 'budget' for what you are (hoping to be) getting from them.

 

[tomav84]

you also didnt mention mckormack.

we have spent more on players than several premiership teams and are in the bottom 3 of the championship after scraping a mid table finish last season. the return on investment so far has been shocking

[AshVilla]

9 minutes ago, wazzap24 said:

You are right, throwing money at it doesn't guarantee success, but are you really criticising the owner for spending money on the squad? 

What do you think peoples reaction would be to him if he hadn't? 

The last thing we need to be doing is starting on the owner. I agree it hasn't worked and I agree he has to look at his appointments, but the guy has done the best he can to try and get us back up quickly. A lot of clubs would kill for and owner like him. 

I'm not criticizing him for spending money.

I'm criticizing him for appointing people in advisory roles who are not fit for purpose and will probably cost the club big time for years to come.

The recruitment policy at this club is a shambles, upwards of 60 mill spent and were being outperformed by clubs who have not even spent a quarter of that in a 5 year period. The difference being they have managers in place that can get the best out of what they have were nowhere near where we should be and its a disgrace tbh.

But of course Dinosaur Bruce is the man for the job according to Wyness and Round both appointed by Dr Xia he's got so many teams promoted before lets just ignore his complete and utter lack of tactical nouse. PASHUN graft and a pre-season is all we need.

Edited August 16, 2017 by AshVilla

[GodsBarkeep]

I have sympathy for the Doc. He didnt want Bruce initially, but was clearly talked into it by supposed 'football men' (4 promotions and all that), and as it turns out just employing an EFL or CL winning manager isnt a guaranteed solution

[Stevo985]

3 minutes ago, tomav84 said:

you also didnt mention mckormack.

we have spent more on players than several premiership teams and are in the bottom 3 of the championship after scraping a mid table finish last season. the return on investment so far has been shocking

Fine. And you're right.

But how is that Xia's fault?

He's made money available to his managers and recruitment team. Some of it has been spent badly. Xia's job isn't to pick players. it's to make the money available.

 

Plus, I think we'd all think the money had been spent much better if the team was being managed properly.

We have a top 2 squad. 

[wazzap24]

14 minutes ago, AshVilla said:

15 mill Hogan, 12 mill McCormack, biggest transfer fees the championship has ever seen.

1 point out of a possible 9. Manager already whining to the press that our expectation levels are too high.

He is like Lerner in the sense that he surrounds himself with people who claim to have great footballing knowledge but appoint and back completely gormless football managers.

Action needs to be taken swiftly otherwise were going to become a championship non entity for years to come and all that money he's invested will have been pissed up the wall.

 

 

He's not like Lerner. 

Again, I don't disagree that it hasn't worked so far, but that's where the similarities end. 

Lerner appointed people beyond their capability. Faulkner for example made the tea at MBNA or some shit like that and Lerner thought he could handle running the club. Fox was a commercial man, again not up to the top job. They both appointed an ex-Blue nose I'll give you that, but in wildly different circumstances. 

Xia appointed an experienced and relatively well thought of CEO in Wyness, Round is a football man through and through. The commercial guy seems like he has a good track record. 

If Bruce goes, the next appointment is vital, but then all the appointments in the past 5/6 years were 'vital' at the time too. I'd back Xia to get it right over Lerner, any day of the week. 

Edited August 16, 2017 by wazzap24

[bobzy]

5 minutes ago, AshVilla said:

The recruitment policy at this club is a shambles, upwards of 60 mill spent and were being outperformed by clubs who have not even spent a quarter of that in a 5 year period but actually have a manager in place that can get the best out of what thy have were nowhere near where we should be and its a disgrace tbh.

Steve Bruce's last job, the season before he joined us, was with Hull City and he got them promoted from the same division we're in now.

I refuse to believe that you (or anyone else) looked at his appointment, the squad we had, the players he added to that squad and thought "gah, we're **** for years to come!".

[Rob182]

3 minutes ago, AshVilla said:

I'm not criticizing him for spending money.

I'm criticizing him for appointing people in advisory roles who are not fit for purpose and will probably cost the club big time for years to come.

The recruitment policy at this club is a shambles, upwards of 60 mill spent and were nowhere near where we should be.

Saying 'throwing money at something' definitely looks like you're criticizing him for spending money.

 

£15m Hogan (I thought it was £12m?), £12m McCormack, £9m Chester & £15m on Kodjia are our big signings, but other teams are spending similar amounts down here. Haven't Wolves now beaten our Championship record signing with their new striker? Unfortunately, £15m is the going rate for a top quality Championship striker.

[bobzy]

2 minutes ago, Rob182 said:

Saying 'throwing money at something' definitely looks like you're criticizing him for spending money.

 

£15m Hogan (I thought it was £12m?), £12m McCormack, £9m Chester & £15m on Kodjia are our big signings, but other teams are spending similar amounts down here. Haven't Wolves now beaten our Championship record signing with their new striker? Unfortunately, £15m is the going rate for a top quality Championship striker.

I'm pretty sure the Hogan deal was £8m with potential to rise to £12m, but could be wrong here.

[wazzap24]

2 minutes ago, bobzy said:

Steve Bruce's last job, the season before he joined us, was with Hull City and he got them promoted from the same division we're in now.

I refuse to believe that you (or anyone else) looked at his appointment, the squad we had, the players he added to that squad and thought "gah, we're **** for years to come!".

Yep, it's all well and good pointing out the obvious with hindsight on your side, but there were sound logical reasons behind the appointments made and the players signed. 

Everything is ultimately judged on the end result, but you have to acknowledge the circumstances around decisions made at the time too. 

[Eastie]

Bruce harps on about players not being able to meet expectations of a huge club - he is the one who cannot meet expectation - he may be ok at little clubs like hull or blues but this is his 2nd big club and both times he's been totally out of his comfort zone - I don't see us beating Norwich or Bristol under him so let's get rid now - no point delaying this decision . 

We are already 8 points off the top 3 .

tony needs to make the decision himself - not let wyness and round try to defend their man .

Edited August 16, 2017 by Eastie

[vreitti]

He simply cannot continue with this silence. Come on Tony, do what needs to be done!

[Villarocker]

Imagine how angry and pissed off Tony Xia must feel right now.

He employs people to oversee things and they persuaded him to get in Bruce probably because of his record of promoting teams from The Championship. He now watches Bruce pick Gabby, a player he personally outed on Twitter for not wanting to go to Reading (I think) on loan and to get some football in, over McCormack, a player he paid a lot of money to sign. Obviously, it comes down to player attitudes and ability but surely it must anger him when he sees the goal return of Gabby against that of McCormack when McCormack has hardly had a chance since before last Christmas. He has also seen the last two managers buy a new right back each only to still see Hutton playing there ahead of them. Whelan has been brought in to look like a replacement for Jedinak whenever he is out injured and yet the guy replacing him is older and probably equally as slow!

If I was Xia I would be extremely frustrated and be looking at making changes not just at Manager level but at other levels too!

[Demitri_C]

The silence has told me they will give him until Saturday unfortuantely and I think Norwich is going to be awful. The fans are going to be on Bruces case from the start of kick off 

[vreitti]

6 minutes ago, Demitri_C said:

The silence has told me they will give him until Saturday unfortuantely and I think Norwich is going to be awful. The fans are going to be on Bruces case from the start of kick off 

Do people still show up at home games? 

[wazzap24]

38 minutes ago, AshVilla said:

I'm criticizing him for appointing people in advisory roles who are not fit for purpose and will probably cost the club big time for years to come.

The recruitment policy at this club is a shambles, upwards of 60 mill spent and were being outperformed by clubs who have not even spent a quarter of that in a 5 year period. The difference being they have managers in place that can get the best out of what they have were nowhere near where we should be and its a disgrace tbh.

Genuine question. That's what you think now, based on the results and preformances,  but what did you think at the the time? 

Look at all the players signed since Xia took over. Did you think the recruitment was a shambles at the time? Or like most fans, were you pretty excited by the players we signed? 

We didn't sign a load of nobodies or players from China, we went out and got exactly what pretty much everybody thought we needed. Quality players, with good track records either in this division or above. The 'characters' looked to be the right type too. I agree it's not working, but you can only make the best decision you can at the time, knowing those decisions will ultimately be judged with hindsight for good or bad. 

RDM was a bit left field, but Bruce wasn't a shambles of an appointment, on paper it looked a sensible choice, given his record and our goal. Wyness wasn't a shambles of an appointment, he was an experienced CEO in the football world, who appeared to do as decent job at Everton. 

We can't just criticise everything because it hasn't worked out, we have to apply a bit of balance and acknowledge the intention behind decisions at the time too.