Duck Posted June 3, 2016 Share Posted June 3, 2016 If Aston villas success means success in Xias business then that's a great incentive for Tony to invest. If we do this right we could compete while staying within the "rules". Enough brand identity in China will automatically lead to more varied sponsorships etc from China. HUGE potential for us over the next few years! Exciting times! 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post dont_do_it_doug. Posted June 3, 2016 Popular Post Share Posted June 3, 2016 (edited) 5 hours ago, snowychap said: Let's not. Then unfortunately we fall away into obscurity. I think there's a middle ground here. FFP is an abomination designed to keep the poor (read "small") clubs in their place and I've absolutely no issues with team Tony using whatever tools are at their disposal to circumnavigate it. Rather than being morally wrong, I'd see that as morally righteous. The question is one of perspective. Edited June 3, 2016 by dont_do_it_doug. 15 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
meme Posted June 3, 2016 Share Posted June 3, 2016 FFP is simply set up to ensure that big clubs have no competition; virtually all of the terms of it are fully declaring war on small teams, yet there are very few rules targeting big clubs. Even if they do fail, most of the time the punishment is either a small fine or a transfer embargo: something you can bypass anyway, according to Barcelona tl;dr: everything is corrupt 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villa4europe Posted June 3, 2016 Share Posted June 3, 2016 Yep, laymans terms means Tony can't just pull £50m of his own cash out of his pocket and give it to Bobby to spend, instead he has to get his MSG company to put their name on the front of our shirt for £50m a season Of course if our shirt sponsor deal is worth £50m a season then Man Utd will simply phone up Chevrolet and claim the going rate has increased...the smaller teams artificially inflating the market value is great news to the likes of Utd It's basically encouraging exponential growth, the big clubs will only get bigger Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snowychap Posted June 3, 2016 Share Posted June 3, 2016 33 minutes ago, dont_do_it_doug. said: I think there's a middle ground here. There's a whole load of ground that isn't 'joining the club that has no morals'. Quote FFP is an abomination designed to keep the poor (read "small") clubs in their place and I've absolutely no issues with team Tony using whatever tools are at their disposal to circumnavigate it. Thus becoming one of the clubs whose place is protected by that abomination? There is nothing 'morally righteous' in that, Dave. You may be fine with all of that and see it as the only way to rectify things for Villa in terms of getting results on the pitch (and it may be) but don't dress it up as some crusade by the downtrodden. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dont_do_it_doug. Posted June 3, 2016 Share Posted June 3, 2016 1 minute ago, snowychap said: There's a whole load of ground that isn't 'joining the club that has no morals'. Thus becoming one of the clubs whose place is protected by that abomination? There is nothing 'morally righteous' in that, Dave. You may be fine with all of that and see it as the only way to rectify things for Villa in terms of getting results on the pitch (and it may be) but don't dress it up as some crusade by the downtrodden. OK, I wasn't saying we should have no morals, I think the miscommunication there is on me. It shouldn't matter who is "breaking" the rule, whether it be Manchester City, Leicester City or Aston Villa. What difference does that make? I have no moral objection to Football Club owners spending as much money as they want on the Football Club they 'own'. I've nothing personal against Sheikh Mansour. I'm not dressing it up as some crusade. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snowychap Posted June 3, 2016 Share Posted June 3, 2016 1 minute ago, dont_do_it_doug. said: OK, I wasn't saying we should have no morals The post of mine that you quoted was me saying 'Let's not' in response to a couple of specific sentences posted by someone else: 6 hours ago, Grasshopper said: Football/Global business has no morals. So Lets just join the club. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dont_do_it_doug. Posted June 3, 2016 Share Posted June 3, 2016 36 minutes ago, snowychap said: The post of mine that you quoted was me saying 'Let's not' in response to a couple of specific sentences posted by someone else: That's fair enough. As I said (which you left out of your quote) the miscommunication there is on me. I was scan reading at the time. I don't agree that we should have "no morals". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daweii Posted June 3, 2016 Share Posted June 3, 2016 I think we should be more morally ambiguous though not lacking morals 100%. Right now we play it straight 100% we won't do a single thing that is even close to breaking the rules, yet we should in some instances. Now I'm not saying go 100% off the deep end and start breaching every rule left, right and center because what is the worst that will happen? A fine? That's not what I'm saying, all I am saying is stay competitive and if that means bending the rules from time to time like all the other clubs are then so be it. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Fun Factory Posted June 3, 2016 Share Posted June 3, 2016 It shows how far we have fallen that Swansea are worth £40 million more than us even though our stadium is twice as big. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigJim Posted June 4, 2016 Share Posted June 4, 2016 Some of you accountants out there may take umbrage at this, but isn't this issue comparable to "tax avoidance" vs. "tax evasion"? One a little frowned upon by some but within the rules, the other legally and morally wrong. Massive sponsorship by an associate business may not be prohibited by the letter of the rules, but is clearly contrary to the spirit. At least, it is while everybody else is doing it. When we join in though, it's obviously OK...isn't it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sidcow Posted June 4, 2016 VT Supporter Share Posted June 4, 2016 1 hour ago, BigJim said: Some of you accountants out there may take umbrage at this, but isn't this issue comparable to "tax avoidance" vs. "tax evasion"? One a little frowned upon by some but within the rules, the other legally and morally wrong. Massive sponsorship by an associate business may not be prohibited by the letter of the rules, but is clearly contrary to the spirit. At least, it is while everybody else is doing it. When we join in though, it's obviously OK...isn't it? But isn't this where ffp is just ludicrous. What was wrong with the old. Days where a rich owner would say "I am very rich, it's my club that I own so I am going to pump loads of my money into my club that I own" Ffp has created this environment where clubs and owners have to be sneakey and put cash in by hidden means. It's all a bit silly really. . What's to stop someone at a Xia connected company saying something like "I really love that boardroom table, I would love to buy it, how does £100m sound?" They could even do it via eBay just to complete the illusion with some fake bids from some other Xia companies. It's all just so silly really and should be got rid off. . It's all a sham anyway 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
terrytini Posted June 4, 2016 Share Posted June 4, 2016 Wel there are many reasons I enjoy football, and many reasons I support Villa.I can't think of any of those reasons which constitute an outlet for me to feel morally clean or positive. As long as we break no rules or laws I pretty much don't care what we do if it gets results. In fact, if it's legal, woulwould help, and we are NOT doing I'd want to know why. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThunderPower_14 Posted June 4, 2016 Share Posted June 4, 2016 We won a European Cup when you couldn't just buy one so we're hardly buying our way to being a big club, we didn't build effectively when we had the opportunity to under Ellis and we've just been **** soul destroyingly shit for 6 years. As far as i'm concerned, i'm prepared to look the other way at a lot of dodgy shit if they can get us back to where we belong. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neil Posted June 4, 2016 Share Posted June 4, 2016 10 hours ago, Duck said: Enough brand identity in China will automatically lead to more varied sponsorships etc from China. HUGE potential for us over the next few years! With such a large population the potential for branding/merchandising revenue is insane. The Chinese adopt fashions very quickly, if our name got banded about as the Chinese club to support could be huge like you say. I only posted the other week the Leicester clothing section in Bangkok airport. The influence local appeal can have runs fast, I took this when out at sea of a random Thai boat crew just yesterday and you'd never of dreamed of seeing that here before Thai ownership :- 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Craigy1874 Posted June 4, 2016 Share Posted June 4, 2016 Who gives a shit about the 'spirit' of the law? abide by the rules as they are written and use all legal loopholes possible to get us competing at the top again. I for one hope we now have some people smart enough to do this now. And sometimes to be smart u need to sail very close to the wind but as long as we stay 'legal' i'm happy. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThunderPower_14 Posted June 4, 2016 Share Posted June 4, 2016 1 hour ago, Craigy1874 said: Who gives a shit about the 'spirit' of the law? abide by the rules as they are written and use all legal loopholes possible to get us competing at the top again. I for one hope we now have some people smart enough to do this now. And sometimes to be smart u need to sail very close to the wind but as long as we stay 'legal' i'm happy. Exactly. You can either sook about being left behind people doing what it takes to be the best or you can do it better than them Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AntrimBlack Posted June 4, 2016 Share Posted June 4, 2016 5 hours ago, ThunderPower_14 said: We won a European Cup when you couldn't just buy one so we're hardly buying our way to being a big club, we didn't build effectively when we had the opportunity to under Ellis and we've just been **** soul destroyingly shit for 6 years. As far as i'm concerned, i'm prepared to look the other way at a lot of dodgy shit if they can get us back to where we belong. Correct. This was where it really went wrong. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AntrimBlack Posted June 4, 2016 Share Posted June 4, 2016 8 hours ago, BigJim said: Some of you accountants out there may take umbrage at this, but isn't this issue comparable to "tax avoidance" vs. "tax evasion"? One a little frowned upon by some but within the rules, the other legally and morally wrong. Massive sponsorship by an associate business may not be prohibited by the letter of the rules, but is clearly contrary to the spirit. At least, it is while everybody else is doing it. When we join in though, it's obviously OK...isn't it? If we can get to the top while staying within the rules, I am good with it. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Gary Thomas Posted June 4, 2016 Popular Post Share Posted June 4, 2016 (edited) To me business ethics and morality come to the fore when people are suffering in some way. That would be an issue for me. But what are we talking about here, finding ways to boost our revenue so we can spend a bit more to compete with sides that have a huge financial advantage. I have no problem with villa exploiting legal loopholes or using clever financial instruments to make us more successful and competitive as a team - in fact I welcome it. Edited June 4, 2016 by Gary Thomas 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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