cyrusr Posted September 11, 2019 VT Supporter Share Posted September 11, 2019 Your legal question is whether the disclosure of personal documentations (i.e. emails WhatsApp etc) is legal or not. Articles 9/10/14 don’t apply. No one is saying that what they have said is wrong or that they are not able to say it, just that it is important for parliament to see. Whilst article 8 has an impact, it’s not an absolute, as @bickster has said. It is quantifiable and can be infringed, subject to the circumstances. The insinuation is that they have used these various private methods to discuss government policy etc and that’s why they want them disclosed. The government have said it is disproportionate and that is privileged information. The question going forward is whether that is or isn’t, and indeed whether parliament has the power to order disclose just by its sheer desire. Whilst these are private correspondence, like Hilary Clinton, this may still be required to ensure transparency in the government. That is why Article 8 is quantified. So whilst ECHR may have some bearing, that isn’t the question you should be really asking. I hope that helps you all Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StefanAVFC Posted September 11, 2019 Share Posted September 11, 2019 2 hours ago, colhint said: Wouldn't handing over private communications between individuals be illegal? 2 hours ago, snowychap said: Why would it be 'illegal'? 2 hours ago, colhint said: I thought that was covered by ECHR. Shrug emoji Disingenuous stuff from start to finish. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snowychap Posted September 11, 2019 Share Posted September 11, 2019 5 minutes ago, cyrusr said: So whilst ECHR may have some bearing, that isn’t the question you should be really asking. Indeed. The decision of the ICO in previous case(s) against Cummings and Gove is what should apply, from the case I have seen made. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
colhint Posted September 11, 2019 Share Posted September 11, 2019 (edited) 1 minute ago, StefanAVFC said: Shrug emoji Disingenuous stuff from start to finish. So no you can't then Edited September 11, 2019 by colhint Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobzy Posted September 11, 2019 Share Posted September 11, 2019 1 hour ago, colhint said: Burden of proof is a legal term, so it's now on you. Show me where I said that it's illegal? Wouldn’t it be illegal to say someone else said something was illegal? Something to do with EHOP? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snowychap Posted September 12, 2019 Share Posted September 12, 2019 50 minutes ago, bobzy said: Wouldn’t it be illegal to say someone else said something was illegal? No. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davkaus Posted September 12, 2019 Share Posted September 12, 2019 So, away from discussing someone's tenuous grasp on the law, anyone reading the Yellowhammer document and thinking "worth it"? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobzy Posted September 12, 2019 Share Posted September 12, 2019 6 hours ago, snowychap said: No. I think “no” is illegal too. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bickster Posted September 12, 2019 Moderator Share Posted September 12, 2019 4 hours ago, Davkaus said: So, away from discussing someone's tenuous grasp on the law, anyone reading the Yellowhammer document and thinking "worth it"? If those three pages are the entire document, the government is seriously under-prepared (we already knew this). We all know that can't be the full thing but even those three pages show what a shit show this is going to be. They redacted the fuel bit, what really worries me is the stuff the really left out, the fuel bit being redacted just comes across as a distraction. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mic09 Posted September 12, 2019 Share Posted September 12, 2019 (edited) so, while we all argue about how (if at all!) we should leave the EU, the new commissioners have been named. To name a few interesting people, let's look at Laszlo Trocsanyi, the new 'Neighbourhood and Engagement' person from Hungary. One of the main soldiers of Mr Orban's autocratic rule, famously known for his court reforms which many argued endangered the judicial power. But well, what can you expect from a nationalist. We then have Transport, taken by mrs Rovana Plumb. Romania has one of the smallest motorway systems in the EU and mrs Plumb has been questioned over corruption. Italy has a representative for the Economy department in mr Paolo Gentioloni. Former PM of Italy, one of the most economically endangered countries in Europe, and possibly the next one to go 'bust' after Greece. He will find himself right at home in the Economy department. But hey, at least they are not Tories! Edited September 12, 2019 by Mic09 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seat68 Posted September 12, 2019 Share Posted September 12, 2019 This is all completely shocking, I have an attack of the vapours coming. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mjmooney Posted September 12, 2019 VT Supporter Share Posted September 12, 2019 One of my friends is married to Dame Julie Moore (formerly Chief Executive of University Hospitals Birmingham NHS Foundation Trust), currently associate non executive director at Worcestershire acute hospitals NHS trust. This is her assessment of the impact of a no-deal Brexit: Quote I have today been asked to draw up a summary of potential brexit impact on NHS by friends who want to have some facts to hand when discussing this. Of course Operation Yellowhammer published this evening and many other organisations have done summaries (Kings Fund, BMA etc), but here is a quick list from me. Potential impact of brexit on NHS 1. Drugs. 75% of drugs in UK currently come via or from EU. 2. Radioactive isotopes (used for radiotherapy for cancer patients and in some tests). Currently all sourced from Euratom, we do not/cannot make this in UK. Some of the longer half life isotopes are being stockpiled but unclear about shorter half life isotopes. 3. Staff. At my last hospital 10% of the most highly qualified specialists came from EU. Staff from EU work across all professions and grades. 4. Staff (cont). Many social care providers rely on staff from EU. I am am told by social care colleagues that some care homes have up to 70% staff from EU. 5. Research. a. UK teaching hospitals receive significant amounts of research grant income from EU. At my last trust c£6m. b. In addition Clinical research today requires large numbers of patients and this is achieved by collaboration across countries. There are many cross EU clinical research projects currently in progress. ?UK continued and future participation. c. Restrictions of Freedom of movement may well stop UK hospitals and universities attracting the best researchers. 6. Hospitals also need food and fuel which may be in short supply. 7. On a more long range time frame, one of the biggest indicators of health status is employment status: joblessness leads to more ill health. If there are job losses, this will lead to more ill health. 8. The NHS relies on tax income. A recession will reduce the tax receipts and may affect the NHS funding. (Of course this is a government decision). Benefits to NHS? A mythical £350m a week on a red bus. I am sure this is not exhaustive, but for those who asked, hope it is helpful. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bickster Posted September 12, 2019 Moderator Share Posted September 12, 2019 Bexiteers want cancer patients to die 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seat68 Posted September 12, 2019 Share Posted September 12, 2019 1 minute ago, bickster said: Bexiteers want Cancer patients to die This is what they voted for. Yes it wasn't specified in the Brexit literature but you know, leave means leave. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dodgyknees Posted September 12, 2019 Share Posted September 12, 2019 20 minutes ago, bickster said: Bexiteers want cancer patients to die They will take civil war and death as long as they get to say they have won. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mjmooney Posted September 12, 2019 VT Supporter Share Posted September 12, 2019 Just now, avfcDJ said: They will take civil war and death as long as they get to say they have won. No. They'll say they'd take civil war war and death. But the **** ing blowhards will be the first to start bleating when the shit hits the fan. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mic09 Posted September 12, 2019 Share Posted September 12, 2019 (edited) 39 minutes ago, bickster said: Bexiteers want Cancer patients to die I have read someone say that all people who voted leave are racist. Now they want cancer patients to die. I really think that such a rhetoric is the key to success of people such as Farage, Trump and the growing movement of radicals. Some regular people who might have voted leave or might be sceptical towards socialism or European Union in itself have heard enough crap like that and simply rebel by voting towards the other extremes. Every action causes a counter reaction, one extreme leads to another. Edited September 12, 2019 by Mic09 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wainy316 Posted September 12, 2019 Share Posted September 12, 2019 11 minutes ago, mjmooney said: No. They'll say they'd take civil war war and death. But the **** ing blowhards will be the first to start bleating when the shit hits the fan. They certainly won't be blaming themselves though. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mjmooney Posted September 12, 2019 VT Supporter Share Posted September 12, 2019 (edited) Quote Richard Dawkins rarely raises his voice. He speaks in a melodious, fatherly tone that undulates between wonder and exasperation. But, make no mistake, he is annoyed – and not by any priest or imam but by a fellow Oxford-educated member of the English establishment classes. “I am deeply pessimistic,” he says, reflecting on British prime minister Boris Johnson’s latest manoeuvrings. “I think the Brexiteers started out by having a belief it would be a good thing; it has become a religion now. It has become a faith. It has become a creed... It has become like religious zeal. They are determined to get Brexit even if they destroy the country, and Scotland breaks away in the process. It’s a form of madness.” Just weeks before the referendum in June 2016, he spelt out his thinking in Prospect Magazine, explaining that his own answer to the question of whether to leave or remain was: “How should I know? I don’t have a degree in economics. Or history. How dare you entrust such an important decision to ignoramuses like me?” Just as Michael Gove – another Oxford man – was pooh-poohing the role of experts, Dawkins was defending them. “You want your surgeon to know anatomy. You want the pilot of your airliner to have cerebral knowledge and cerebellar skills honed by painstakingly many flying hours… Am I being elitist? Yes of course I am, and why not?” Irish Times Edited September 12, 2019 by mjmooney 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bickster Posted September 12, 2019 Moderator Share Posted September 12, 2019 15 minutes ago, Mic09 said: I have read someone say that all people who voted leave are racist. Now they want cancer patients to die. I really think that such a rhetoric is the key to success of people such as Farage, Trump and the growing movement of radicals. Some regular people who might have voted leave or might be sceptical towards socialism or European Union in itself have heard enough crap like that and simply rebel by voting towards the other extremes. Every action causes a counter reaction, one extreme leads to another. Its ok, say nothing and just let them die needlessly I'm rather glad we were in the EU when the missus had breast cancer. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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