HanoiVillan Posted June 8, 2016 Share Posted June 8, 2016 3 minutes ago, MakemineVanilla said: Nice, but should these functions be contiguous? [1] And, should Labour be shown to be ahead in the polls at some future General Election, would it be right for the BBC to identify a demograph known to support the Tories and exhort them to vote? [2] [1] Yes, because the best place to give people public service announcements is on the news. I really can't think of anywhere better. [2] If that demographic group is massively under-represented then sure. That's unlikely, because most social groups than vote Tory vote at much higher rates. I suppose one group that might vote Tory in fairly large numbers yet may be under-represented (I haven't checked) is British Asians. I have absolutely no problem with encouraging that group to vote. In general, if your plan for winning an election is preventing people from voting, or making it difficult to register to vote, or not telling them how to vote, then a] you've (generic 'you' there) already lost the argument, and b] you don't deserve to win anyway. I thought the Leave campaign were in favour of more democaracy? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tonyh29 Posted June 8, 2016 Share Posted June 8, 2016 14 minutes ago, meregreen said: The banking crisis in Greece was caused by a global banking crisis surely ?. Not really attributable to the EU .Likewise, quantitative easing has been a worldwide solution, not just the EU. Economically, my own view is that the EU is far better placed to take on the might of the USA and China, than we would alone. the case put forward was that it's better for our economy to remain in the EU , I was pointing out that it hasn't helped many of the countries that are in the EU rather than specifics about the cause ... that other posters then wanted to make it a different issue kinda clouded the point I was making , which is that IMO that making an economic argument for staying in the EU is kinda flawed .. i.e based on the evidence how can there be this certainty that if we stay all will be rosy but if we leave we are royally **** ... and logically you can't 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blandy Posted June 8, 2016 Author Moderator Share Posted June 8, 2016 30 minutes ago, MakemineVanilla said: Nice, but should these functions be contiguous? And, should Labour be shown to be ahead in the polls at some future General Election, would it be right for the BBC to identify a demograph known to support the Tories and exhort them to vote? At the risk of writing about something I didn't personally see (hear?), this seems like a false parallel. Story 1 - All viewers are told that "Polls have shown that N percent of whatever demographic (pensioners, young people etc.) support [whatever party/issue]" Item 2 - All viewers are told that the deadline to register /vote is [whenever]. in other words the BBC is not urging "a demographic known to support the tories (or whoever) to vote - they are informing the entire audience of a deadline. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MakemineVanilla Posted June 8, 2016 Share Posted June 8, 2016 3 minutes ago, blandy said: At the risk of writing about something I didn't personally see (hear?), this seems like a false parallel. Story 1 - All viewers are told that "Polls have shown that N percent of whatever demographic (pensioners, young people etc.) support [whatever party/issue]" Item 2 - All viewers are told that the deadline to register /vote is [whenever]. in other words the BBC is not urging "a demographic known to support the tories (or whoever) to vote - they are informing the entire audience of a deadline. I think that to judge the neutrality of the piece you would need to have seen it. When it comes to fairness a useful first step is to reverse the situation and then see if it still parses. Quibbling about the details of that inversion misses the point but is definitely a useful diversion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blandy Posted June 8, 2016 Author Moderator Share Posted June 8, 2016 6 minutes ago, MakemineVanilla said: I think that to judge the neutrality of the piece you would need to have seen it.... Quibbling about the details of that inversion misses the point but is definitely a useful diversion. If you tell me where it was I'll iPlayer it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MakemineVanilla Posted June 8, 2016 Share Posted June 8, 2016 2 minutes ago, blandy said: If you tell me where it was I'll iPlayer it. iPlayer shows the news as unavailable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blandy Posted June 8, 2016 Author Moderator Share Posted June 8, 2016 15 minutes ago, MakemineVanilla said: iPlayer shows the news as unavailable. News at 10 and News at One are there...unfortunately the BBC site thinks I'm in America so won't let me look at them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MakemineVanilla Posted June 8, 2016 Share Posted June 8, 2016 1 minute ago, blandy said: News at 10 and News at One are there...unfortunately the BBC site thinks I'm in America so won't let me look at them. Same here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisp65 Posted June 8, 2016 Share Posted June 8, 2016 we're only a little island, there's no more room Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tonyh29 Posted June 8, 2016 Share Posted June 8, 2016 7 minutes ago, chrisp65 said: we're only a little island, there's no more room OT but aren't this govt frequently attacked about the lack of new houses they are building ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HanoiVillan Posted June 8, 2016 Share Posted June 8, 2016 Once again, I ask you to recall that the Leave campaign are very keen on saying how much they love democracy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brommy Posted June 8, 2016 Share Posted June 8, 2016 What about those who still don't manage to register before midnight tonight? Will the 'deadline' be extended again? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HanoiVillan Posted June 8, 2016 Share Posted June 8, 2016 I imagine it will depend whether the website crashed again. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brommy Posted June 9, 2016 Share Posted June 9, 2016 10 minutes ago, HanoiVillan said: I imagine it will depend whether the website crashed again. I thought the website crashed for less than two hours, yet the extension is two days. In regard to the desire to include as many voters as possible, why wasn't the original deadline set to the latest possible date to administer the registration of voters? It clearly wasn't as they were able to extend it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HanoiVillan Posted June 9, 2016 Share Posted June 9, 2016 1 minute ago, brommy said: I thought the website crashed for less than two hours, yet the extension is two days. In regard to the desire to include as many voters as possible, why wasn't the original deadline set to the latest possible date to administer the registration of voters? It clearly wasn't as they were able to extend it. There's no reason for the registration period to match the time the website was down, that's just silly. Firstly because there's no actual reason to do that, and secondly because clearly the website can't handle that amount of traffic in that period, so why make it crash again? Concerning your second point, I agree, the voter registration deadline should have been later, and, as I've said before, it isn't actually impossible to create a system whereby people can register on polling day itself. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snowychap Posted June 9, 2016 Share Posted June 9, 2016 7 hours ago, HanoiVillan said: it isn't actually impossible to create a system whereby people can register on polling day itself. As far as I'm aware, one can register to vote on any day and at any time, it's just that there is a deadline for each election. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tonyh29 Posted June 9, 2016 Share Posted June 9, 2016 8 hours ago, HanoiVillan said: Once again, I ask you to recall that the Leave campaign are very keen on saying how much they love democracy. tbf the main players all seem to have said that it should have been extended but it was a 2 hour crash , followed by a 2 day extension , that's not really anything to do with democracy being retained it sounds like typical levels of government incompetence followed by a ill thought out panic ... from my reading of it the deadline in order for the Electoral Commission to conduct checks on potentially fraudulent registrations , so you can already see a legal challenge on the cards if the result is close .... More than 300,000 of the 525,000 who applied to register yesterday were under 34 - and that age group, polling suggests, is more likely to back EU membership .. of course if these people can't register in 12 months (or however long they had) , whose to say they are likely to get to the voting booth on time , maybe we should put a contingency in place to allow voting to extend until the 25th June just in case .... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob182 Posted June 9, 2016 Share Posted June 9, 2016 Am I the only one who can't wait for this to be over and done with? It brings out the very worst in people and the printed press has been particularly disgraceful. Both sides of the debate just seem to lie and manipulate in the hope of further their own political careers. It's project fear from both sides and it seems such a shame that a massively important decision like this has been hijacked by arseholes like Cameron and Johnson. This is where I am. The scaremongering on both sides is unbearable, and you're right that it brings out the worst in people. I've had odd looks from people from both camps, just by offering an alternative opinion to theirs. If you've considered to vote leave then you're 'only doing it because of immigrants'. If you've considered to vote stay then it's because 'our economy will fall apart if you don't'. The truth is that no one knows exactly what will happen, but too many people are getting on their high horses, on both sides, stating exactly what will happen and how bad it will be if we do/don't leave. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MakemineVanilla Posted June 9, 2016 Share Posted June 9, 2016 8 hours ago, HanoiVillan said: Once again, I ask you to recall that the Leave campaign are very keen on saying how much they love democracy. The main problem with the so-called debate is that it has been reduced to weighing the lies and hypocrisies of one camp against the lies and hypocrisies of the other. That is why people complain about the lack of information. My view would be that electronic registration should be treated like any other sort of registration - if on-line registration malfunctions it should be treated just the same as if something prevented citizens from registering at an office, through flood, storm or act of god. The buffoonery of Boris or the creepy unctuousness of Osborne makes no difference either way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chindie Posted June 9, 2016 VT Supporter Share Posted June 9, 2016 (edited) Wollaston's switch is one of the dafter things in politics recently. She can no longer in good conscience support Leave because of the £350m lie, or more accurately that Gove and co keep hinting it could be spent on the NHS, which is an even greater bare faced lie. So she switched to Remain. OK, great... Presumably, however, she had some well thought out basis for supporting Leave that you'd hope would transcend fears of integrity of the campaign in the clear light of day. Wollaston will have to forgive me for thinking that either a) she's actually realised that she's wrong on Leave and wanted to switch while not admitting she was wrong on something fundamental so is using the lie to save face, b ) she's a complete idiot, or c) a combination of the two... Edited June 9, 2016 by Chindie 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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