chrisp65 Posted June 8, 2016 Share Posted June 8, 2016 It certainly isn't looking very clever for 'remain' at the moment. Local news did a quick vox pop from some god forsaken village miles from broadband and a decent coffee shop. The town and the surrounding area have an immigration level of less than 2%. Every older person that expressed an opinion wanted a stop on the number of migrants. I guess part of the trouble is, we've had a very long stretch of everyone being told everything is crap. Of Chris Grayling being put in charge of government departments when the poor bugger clearly has trouble breathing and blinking at the same time. We've had Gove trashing government departments. All those years of other similar people before them. The NHS looking near the point of collapse, no houses being built, traffic jams and expensive trains. All the crap that make Monday's so special.Terrorism. Pictures of marching migrants and refugees crossing europe. The threat of Koln style mass sex attacks. Turkey twisting arms to get money and access to stop sending us dangerous youths and dead toddlers. All of that. With one side of the argument being 'we should keep things as they are'. I don't think I've met anyone that wants to keep things as they are. What 'remain' needs pretty quickly is a very clever dangerous oaf to start waving knickers and pasties and promising undeliverable nice things whilst dangling from a zip wire. Ditch the endless scary statistics, as Michael Gove has advised us, ignore the experts and the facts, vote with your feelings. Remain need a clown promising us the fun bits of the 1960's. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post HanoiVillan Posted June 8, 2016 Popular Post Share Posted June 8, 2016 Oh yes, Michael Gove and his 'feelings': 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Demitri_C Posted June 8, 2016 Share Posted June 8, 2016 Ive decided if we vote leave and it happens, I am leaving the country for a while. I have a feeling this will lead to another recession and prices are just going to shoot up for everything when cost of living is already high. i think it will be a complete disaster for us short term. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ccfcman Posted June 8, 2016 Share Posted June 8, 2016 When David Cameron is on the side of the rational and logical side of the argument, you can see how easy it is to be convinced otherwise. I still think you guys will stay which, is a great thing for Ireland (no one seems to really mind our immigration), given we are one another's no. 1 trading partners and in the long term a good thing for the UK as a whole. Of course ultimately the real fear is dickheads like me will be chiming on the "England out of the Euros before Europe" puns Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tonyh29 Posted June 8, 2016 Share Posted June 8, 2016 31 minutes ago, Demitri_C said: Ive decided if we vote leave and it happens, I am leaving the country for a while. Well that's me voting leave then Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tonyh29 Posted June 8, 2016 Share Posted June 8, 2016 I'll link to it later when I can find the article but I read on flipboard that the French have a higher desire to leave the EU than the British , I think a leave vote will see the whole project ripped down ( and started again ? ) could actually be the best thing we ever did for Europe since we let the Americans single handily win WW 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevo985 Posted June 8, 2016 VT Supporter Share Posted June 8, 2016 8 hours ago, tonyh29 said: And the people you've met in real life who are going to vote remain ? Most popular reason I've seen here on VT ( so more La La world than real world ) is "well if X wants to leave I'm def voting to remain " i don't doubt you are right with your conclusion , I just don't think it's unique to one side Well the people I know who are voting remain tend to say stuff like it's better for the economy, would prevent job losses, leaving is too much of an unknown so it's "safer" to stay in. Whereas the people I know who are voting to leave have told me it's because of "illegal immigration", they want to regain some "british values", leaving the EU will mean less strict private pilot laws and more british jobs for british people. I'm not saying either side is right. But in my incredibly small sample size the reasons for staying at the very least seem to make sense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StefanAVFC Posted June 8, 2016 Share Posted June 8, 2016 (edited) I'm worried. I'm constantly told that young people wnt to stay in but tonnes of young people on my Facebook are all voting leave. It pisses me off though. People are irrational. This one guy posted a massive essay having a go at the remain campaign for scaremongering and presenting his own opinions as facts, basically taking a moral high ground, then shares a 'reasons to remain' link with the punchline being 'there aren't any' when you click it. It's stupid. Edited June 8, 2016 by StefanAVFC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morley_crosses_to_Withe Posted June 8, 2016 Share Posted June 8, 2016 (edited) I get the impression that some people think anyone who wants to vote leave is a Sun newspaper reading, day time TV watching dumb **** who probably struggles to tie their own shoelaces. My (admittedly) small sample size tells me that's not the case. My area is about as middle class as it gets with people from all sorts of professional backgrounds. There's a doctor directly opposite, an architect next door and an MD of a large advertising agency on the other side. They all want out. They reckon most of the people they've been speaking to want out, too. My barber who speaks to shit loads of local people on a daily basis said that he has hardly spoken to anyone who wants to remain. And I'm sure they haven't all just concluded that "cuz ov de immigants". Nobody knows what's going to happen apart from that the vote is going to be very close. Edited June 8, 2016 by Morley_crosses_to_Withe 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sexbelowsound Posted June 8, 2016 Share Posted June 8, 2016 If the vote doesn't end up overwhelmingly in favor of staying in then i'll be seriously concerned. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisp65 Posted June 8, 2016 Share Posted June 8, 2016 Calls from some this morning to extend the time allowed to register to vote. The website couldn't cope with the demand yesterday, with over half a million applicants trying to get registered in the last 24 hours. Personally, my considered opinion on this, is tough tits. You've had your entire adult life to get registered but you've chosen to leave it until 10:00pm on the last day and hope your broadband works and nobody else is trying to register at the same time. Thems was the rules. 504 gateway time out Quote The difficulties happened just before Tuesday night's deadline. Users reported a page displaying the message "504 Gateway Time-out" instead of the online registration form. The government blamed "unprecedented demand" and said half a million people tried to register to vote on Tuesday. According to the government's data website, 525,000 people applied to register to vote during the day - 170,000 were aged 25 to 34, 132,000 under the age of 25 and 100,000 aged 35 to 44. It also shows that the peak users came at 22:15 BST when 50,711 people were using the service at the same time. There were 26,000 people on the site at 23:55 BST and 20,416 people using the site at 12:01 BST, just after the deadline. The government's data site does not record whether these users were successful or not in attempting to register to vote. It is also not clear whether these figures include those who got an error message. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Demitri_C Posted June 8, 2016 Share Posted June 8, 2016 (edited) 1 hour ago, Stevo985 said: Well the people I know who are voting remain tend to say stuff like it's better for the economy, would prevent job losses, leaving is too much of an unknown so it's "safer" to stay in. Whereas the people I know who are voting to leave have told me it's because of "illegal immigration", they want to regain some "british values", leaving the EU will mean less strict private pilot laws and more british jobs for british people. I find this abit hypercritcal when people say this Stevo, as I have heard it from people I know as well. Alot of non Scots were criticising the Scots for wanting to leave the UK as they wanted Scottish jobs, and Scottish values. These are not enough reasons to leave EU, seriously gambling with our lives by leaving EU in my view. Edited June 8, 2016 by Demitri_C Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blandy Posted June 8, 2016 Author Moderator Share Posted June 8, 2016 10 minutes ago, chrisp65 said: You've had your entire adult life to get registered but you've chosen to leave it until 10:00pm on the last day and hope your broadband works and nobody else is trying to register at the same time. I'm the opposite. I think if the registration system breaks, people should be re-given the opportunity that they missed through no fault of their own. It's a good thing if people register to vote, and the inability of the system to cope with people registering needs sorted. I mean it's like if you turn up to vote in the specified hours and they have not got enough pencils to let everyone in the Queue vote before 10pm, they should stay open a bit longer, not refuse to let people participate because of an arbitrary deadline. Spread democracy, not petty disqualification from voting because computer sez no. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tonyh29 Posted June 8, 2016 Share Posted June 8, 2016 1 hour ago, Stevo985 said: Well the people I know who are voting remain tend to say stuff like it's better for the economy, would prevent job losses, leaving is too much of an unknown so it's "safer" to stay in. Whereas the people I know who are voting to leave have told me it's because of "illegal immigration", they want to regain some "british values", leaving the EU will mean less strict private pilot laws and more british jobs for british people. I'm not saying either side is right. But in my incredibly small sample size the reasons for staying at the very least seem to make sense. I get the sentiment but they have seen what's been happening within Europe over the past years haven't they ? Quantitative easing of billions / trillions ? , Europe's jobless rate is over 10% , Households in Greece have lost 24% of income , Cyprus 22% .... that anyone can use an economic argument for staying in is almost as baffling as using an immigration or a terrorism arguments for leaving The unknown is potentially a valid concern it's still why I may vote stay on the 23rd , but increasingly as I read more and more European news I get the feeling even if we vote remain the next Exit country is waiting in the wings Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tonyh29 Posted June 8, 2016 Share Posted June 8, 2016 8 minutes ago, blandy said: I'm the opposite. I think if the registration system breaks, people should be re-given the opportunity that they missed through no fault of their own. It's a good thing if people register to vote, and the inability of the system to cope with people registering needs sorted. I mean it's like if you turn up to vote in the specified hours and they have not got enough pencils to let everyone in the Queue vote before 10pm, they should stay open a bit longer, not refuse to let people participate because of an arbitrary deadline. Spread democracy, not petty disqualification from voting because computer sez no. I'm with Chris on this one this election hasn't just been announced today , nor is it a shock that we have General elections in this country that had you registered for you would already be enrolled for this vote . if you're too dumb to be organised it's probably best you don't vote anyway as you'll only put the X in the wrong box Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MakemineVanilla Posted June 8, 2016 Share Posted June 8, 2016 (edited) 57 minutes ago, sexbelowsound said: If the vote doesn't end up overwhelmingly in favor of staying in then i'll be seriously concerned. I don't think you should expect an overwhelming majority in favour of staying but I would be amazed if the vote was in favour of leaving. I think the polls are as likely to be wrong as they were before the last election and for the same reasons. People are vain, insecure, cowardly and self-interested, and their vanity will mean they will be happier to express the 'brave' opinion that they are in favour of leaving, than the pusillanimous view that they wish to keep things the same even though they don't much like it. When they get into the voting booth, it is their immediate and short-term self-interest which will determine their vote. The dilemma is almost identical to that which voters faced in 2015, where they had to choose between a Tory party they didn't much like and a Labour party they didn't trust. Their hearts told them that they should vote Labour, which is what they told the pollsters, but voted exactly the opposite when it came to the crunch. Which is roughly what happened in Scotland with the independence vote. I would be happy to be wrong but it seems unlikely. Edited June 8, 2016 by MakemineVanilla 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sexbelowsound Posted June 8, 2016 Share Posted June 8, 2016 4 minutes ago, MakemineVanilla said: I don't think you should expect an overwhelming majority in favour of staying but I would be amazed if the vote was in favour of leaving. I think the polls are as likely to be wrong as they were before the last election and for the same reasons. People are vain, insecure, cowardly and self-interested, and their vanity will mean they will be happier to express the 'brave' opinion that they are in favour of leaving, than the pusillanimous view that they wish to keep things the same even though they don't much like it. When they get into the voting booth, it is their immediate and short-term self-interest which will determine their vote. The dilemma is almost identical to that which voters faced in 2015, where they had to choose between a Tory party they didn't much like and a Labour party they didn't trust. Their hearts told them that they should vote Labour, which is what they told the pollsters, but voted exactly the opposite when it came to the crunch. Which is roughly what happened in Scotland with the independence vote. I would be happy to be wrong but it seems unlikely. Good post. I don't expect a majority, far from it but the close vote which is likely is worrying. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tonyh29 Posted June 8, 2016 Share Posted June 8, 2016 16 minutes ago, MakemineVanilla said: Their hearts told them that they should vote Labour, which is what they told the pollsters, but voted exactly the opposite when it came to the crunch. I don't think this was the case .... at least the evidence doesn't appear to support a late swing , nor does it support the shy Tory view either good article on it here A poll can consist of 20,000 respondents but, if they are not representative of the general population, they are no more use than a sample of 200. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevo985 Posted June 8, 2016 VT Supporter Share Posted June 8, 2016 (edited) 1 hour ago, tonyh29 said: I get the sentiment but they have seen what's been happening within Europe over the past years haven't they ? Quantitative easing of billions / trillions ? , Europe's jobless rate is over 10% , Households in Greece have lost 24% of income , Cyprus 22% .... that anyone can use an economic argument for staying in is almost as baffling as using an immigration or a terrorism arguments for leaving The unknown is potentially a valid concern it's still why I may vote stay on the 23rd , but increasingly as I read more and more European news I get the feeling even if we vote remain the next Exit country is waiting in the wings Like I said, whether they're right or not is not really the point I'm making. It's the fact that it's a valid, logical reason, even if it isn't correct. It's like making a decision on what new car to get. From my admittedly tiny sample, the remain people seem to be making their decision based on the new car's MPG, it's practicality, it's top speed etc. They might be making the wrong decision, but at least they're looking at the right sorts of things. The leaves are making their decision based on the shape of the ashtray, the size of the wheel nuts and diameter of the steering wheel. Edited June 8, 2016 by Stevo985 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MakemineVanilla Posted June 8, 2016 Share Posted June 8, 2016 3 minutes ago, Stevo985 said: Like I said, whether they're right or not is not really the point I'm making. It's the fact that it's a valid, logical reason, even if it isn't correct. It's like making a decision on what new car to get. From my admittedly tiny sample, the remain people seem to be making their decision based on the new car's MPG, it's practicality, it's top speed etc. They might be making the wrong decision, but at least they're looking at the right sorts of things. The leaves are making their decision based on the shape of the ashtray, the size of the wheel nuts and diameter of the steering wheel. Is this new car a Volkswagen? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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