lapal_fan Posted June 1, 2016 Share Posted June 1, 2016 1 hour ago, StefanAVFC said: Listening to a phone in on radio 2 this morning. Shouty blokes shouts down Labour MP saying 'STOP ALL IMMIGRATION UNTIL THE PROBLEM IS SOLVED' Immigration will make us leave the EU and it's mental. And I bet they don't have a problem with Immigration of professional Dr's/Teachers etc - it's the illegal immigrants they have a problem, which will weirdly still be a problem whether we're a part of the EU or not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tonyh29 Posted June 1, 2016 Share Posted June 1, 2016 (edited) 1 hour ago, StefanAVFC said: Listening to a phone in on radio 2 this morning. Shouty blokes shouts down Labour MP saying 'STOP ALL IMMIGRATION UNTIL THE PROBLEM IS SOLVED' Immigration will make us leave the EU and it's mental. If it's a concern to people then surely they are allowed to vote on the issue ? the mistake people keep making is they have it in their heads that it's right wing Britain first types that are going to ruin our rosy future within the EU by voting out cause we don't want no foreigners and they want to salute the Union flag every morning whilst singing Rule Britannia .. but Quote It is important to note that this is not a fringe issue, or a right wing issue. A recent YouGov poll for ITN showed that 71% of people in the UK think that immigration over the past ten years has been too high – and that includes majorities of all political parties. Even 65% of Liberal Democrat voters (all 4 of them ) Now there is evidence that Immigration can be good (net contribution , better looking women etc) , but there is also evidence that it can be bad ( bank of England showed it has driven down wages by 1.9% , that may not sound a lot but as we've seen with striking Doctors money is always a factor , then there is the documented strain on hospitals and schools in some areas (though you could argue that the gov could /should address this with funding ) We've always had immigration here , it's an argument I've made before that Michael Howard tried to make it his big issues in 2005 and got trounced ( there were of course other factors , Howard himself for one !) but in 2005 the general consensus was that we didn't really care about immigration ..... fast forward 11 years and suddenly 71% of the population care about it (as per above poll) ... We aren't America so I don't believe 71% of the country are dumb , I think it means that on reflection they think it's gone too far , I don't think anyone ,other than shouty man , is advocating ending immigration completely or sending them all home , they just want some semblance of control and see the EU as the source of this problem .... maybe they have a point ? maybe they don't .. but the EU has kinda been it's own worse enemy to a large degree Edited June 1, 2016 by tonyh29 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snowychap Posted June 1, 2016 Share Posted June 1, 2016 (edited) 2 hours ago, tonyh29 said: bank of England showed it has driven down wages by 1.9% That's not quite right, is it? What the BoE paper (PDF link) said was: Quote ... the coefficients indicates that a 10 percentage point rise in the proportion of immigrants working in semi/unskilled services — that is, in care homes, bars, shops, restaurants, cleaning, for example — leads to a 1.88 percent reduction in pay. Edited June 1, 2016 by snowychap Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MakemineVanilla Posted June 1, 2016 Share Posted June 1, 2016 14 minutes ago, tonyh29 said: Now there is evidence that Immigration can be good (net contribution , better looking women etc) I suspect that this was meant to be a joke but there is a lot of truth in that. If you want to see what the last governments have done to the British working-class, you only have to go to the areas in Brum where the Poles have moved in and compare the new immigrants with the native Brits. It is like witnessing some kind of eugenics programme (which it probably is). If you see someone looking happy, healthy and slim, they are more likely to be a Pole, and if you see someone looking shabby, massively overweight and depressed-looking, they are the Brummies. Successive governments have completely demoralised the working class and have totally given up on trying to remedy the damage done. The Left just see these people as the Lumpenproletariat who have no political value and have just given up on them, while they glorify immigrants as model workers. While immigrants pour in at the present rate, there will be no incentive for governments to sort out the problems of inner-cities. Our enthusiasm for immigration is based entirely upon the logic of free-market economics; importing workers instead of educating our own is just as much an example of comparative advantage, as importing bananas from a country which has better conditions for growing bananas. Where's the virtue or humanity in that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tonyh29 Posted June 1, 2016 Share Posted June 1, 2016 5 minutes ago, snowychap said: That's not quite right, is it? What the BofE paper (PDF link) said was: tbh I'd heard it on 5 live back end of last year so probably I misquoted it and should have googled it first Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snowychap Posted June 1, 2016 Share Posted June 1, 2016 16 minutes ago, tonyh29 said: tbh I'd heard it on 5 live Enough said. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PompeyVillan Posted June 1, 2016 Share Posted June 1, 2016 EU issues aside, anything Nigel Farage, Michael Gove, Marie Le Pen, Boris Johnson and Donald Trump all think is good idea is probably a bad idea. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villakram Posted June 1, 2016 Share Posted June 1, 2016 In a ponzi economic system, immigration is required. Take note proles! 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tonyh29 Posted June 2, 2016 Share Posted June 2, 2016 Sky nailing their colours to the mast with Faisel Islam asking questions and then talking over the top every time Cameron tries to answer shocking interviewer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villa4europe Posted June 2, 2016 Share Posted June 2, 2016 In a ponzi economic system, immigration is required. Take note proles! Controlled immigration or a free for all? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sharkyvilla Posted June 2, 2016 Share Posted June 2, 2016 41 minutes ago, tonyh29 said: Sky nailing their colours to the mast with Faisel Islam asking questions and then talking over the top every time Cameron tries to answer shocking interviewer Yes crikey I wasn't expecting that, a very hostile audience too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisp65 Posted June 2, 2016 Share Posted June 2, 2016 Farmers and country types can relax, Boris Johnson has today guaranteed that any and all grants and subsidies they get from the EU now, they will get from the UK government if we leave the EU. Quote "We will guarantee the support for UK farming at its current level, 100 per cent." say anything, just say anything, promise every group or sector everything and anything they want, guarantee sunshine, wave a pasty from a bus, say anything Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snowychap Posted June 2, 2016 Share Posted June 2, 2016 One for you @chrisp65: (not) yer man (Neil) Hamilton on Question Time tonight. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post chrisp65 Posted June 2, 2016 Popular Post Share Posted June 2, 2016 I just saw that. Truly boils my piss that that man is still around. 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chindie Posted June 3, 2016 VT Supporter Share Posted June 3, 2016 Quote Conclusion For different mixes of these reasons, ‘Best friends from Washington to Wellington, Ottawa to Canberra and Tokyo to Delhi are unanimous that their relationships are tied to Britain’s place in Europe. Nato, the ultimate guarantor of British security, thinks the country would be disarming itself by quitting’ (Financial Times, 19 May 2016). Comparing costs and benefits is not as exciting as a rousing political speech, but is the right way to approach a hugely important decision. For me the balance of arguments is clear: the economic and foreign policy costs of leaving are large, and on my reading the gains in sovereignty in today’s connected world are limited. The issue is not about the older generation’s past but about our children’s and grandchildren’s future. For those reasons, I shall vote Remain. An LSE professor on why he will vote Remain. Pretty decent summary all in all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tonyh29 Posted June 3, 2016 Share Posted June 3, 2016 40 minutes ago, Chindie said: An LSE professor on why he will vote Remain. Pretty decent summary all in all. we all know how you're voting Dean that was hardly a balanced article , the comment pieces below pick apart a few of them without even breaking a sweat He quotes a former Norway official and yet according to the state secretary for the Ministry of Local Government and Regional Development he is wrong on Norway "It is true that we are not there when they vote", she said, "but we do get to influence the position". out of interest , she also states In fact, if Britain left the EU and joined EFTA, "that would be fantastic". which invalidates the quote you used where it claims everyone is "unanimous" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chindie Posted June 3, 2016 VT Supporter Share Posted June 3, 2016 I've always been clear as to how I'll vote I don't bother to read the comments on more or less anything online and I won't be starting with this. The comments on anything 'Brexit' from both sides of the coin are tragic in the little I've seen and risk me hurling the device I'm reading on through the window and then running into traffic myself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tonyh29 Posted June 3, 2016 Share Posted June 3, 2016 28 minutes ago, Chindie said: I've always been clear as to how I'll vote I don't bother to read the comments on more or less anything online and I won't be starting with this. The comments on anything 'Brexit' from both sides of the coin are tragic in the little I've seen and risk me hurling the device I'm reading on through the window and then running into traffic myself. I agree if it was the Mail or something , but you've linked to an article on the LSE and Political Science , I doubt you are going to get Dave the builder from Chatham offering his views , so I think you can cut them a bit of slack in this instance Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MakemineVanilla Posted June 3, 2016 Share Posted June 3, 2016 It's about democracy and accountability. Any country which had the same system of government as the EU, would not be allowed to join the EU because it would not be considered democratic enough. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tonyh29 Posted June 3, 2016 Share Posted June 3, 2016 32 minutes ago, Chindie said: I've always been clear as to how I'll vote funny enough I watched the Sky thing last night and even where he failed with buzz words and rhetoric , Cameron did a fairly good job on convincing me to vote stay That will probably last until tonight when Gove has his say though ..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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