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The now-enacted will of (some of) the people


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11 minutes ago, tonyh29 said:

the child rapist who was born in Paris you mean ?

Studied in Lodz.

(i don't really care, i'm not proud or feel any affliction/loyalty to Lodz in case in comes across like that)

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28 minutes ago, MakemineVanilla said:

In 2013 the UK government spent over £700bn.

Membership of the EU cost (€10.8bn x 83%) = £8.9bn

Therefore the cost of membership to the EU cost 1.28% of the government budget.

Good post. I was thinking of making the same point but couldn't be bothered with the sums.

It's one of the facts that is (I suspect intentionally) overlooked and ignored by the politicians. We hear a lot of "it costs us £50 million a day" type arguments, but almost never that the amount we put in is 1% (approx) of our overall budget and for that 1% we get X, Y and Z in return.

The whole debate is being held around narrow "niggles" that mainly the tories and UKIPs have: Immigration, benefits, Cost, sovereignty, big business. And of those things, much are red-herringy anyway.

There's a whole lot more (good and bad) about being part of the EU that is just not mentioned, or barely mentioned.

 

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37 minutes ago, MakemineVanilla said:

In 2013 the UK government spent over £700bn.

Membership of the EU cost (€10.8bn x 83%) = £8.9bn

Therefore the cost of membership to the EU cost 1.28% of the government budget.

It seems we had back over 6bn euros as well

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26 minutes ago, blandy said:

The whole debate is being held around narrow "niggles" that mainly the tories and UKIPs have: Immigration, benefits, Cost, sovereignty, big business.

 I'll bite at the troll attempt  ...

Labour MP for example

Quote

Contrary to the complacency among Labour’s campaign chiefs, until the last year – when Ukip was taking four or five Tory voters for every one

Labour voter – in 2015 the Ukip share of the vote was higher in Labour-held seats than in Conservative-held ones.

to me that shows Immigration and benefits are narrow niggles that ALL parties voters / supporters have  ...

 

1 hour ago, MakemineVanilla said:

In 2013 the UK government spent over £700bn.

Membership of the EU cost (€10.8bn x 83%) = £8.9bn

Therefore the cost of membership to the EU cost 1.28% of the government budget.

 

anyway in terms of the figures

£8.9 bn is still 10% of the education spend so I guess it would depend if you felt a 10% budget increase on education would be a better use of that money  ... of course that doesn't measure all the  tangible pros / cons outside of that  straight figure

Edited by tonyh29
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If we cannot control or limit the 2 out of every 5 migrants that arrive here, because they have an EU golden ticket, who is forcing us to accept the 3 out of 5 migrants that are nothing to do with the EU?

Should we be looking at this other shadowy body too? To use that Mail headline, if a million migrants are on their way here, 600,000 of them are not connected with our EU membership. Why can't we do something about them? 

On the figures released this week, 300,000 new migrants have arrived in the last year, 120,000 EU, 180,000 non EU related. For Cameron to achieve his target of reducing immigration to 100,000 per annum, he can reduce EU immigration to zero and still fail massively.

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57 minutes ago, Seat68 said:

It seems we had back over 6bn euros as well

I think the £8.6bn is after the rebate

 

but doesn't included the extra £1.3bn that we were asked to pay for having a successful economy , that Osborne said we wouldn't pay and told Europe so to much fanfare in the Mail  ... and then appears to have paid it when nobody was looking anyway  ... so it could be that our net figure is actually £10bn rather than £8.6

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1 hour ago, blandy said:

Good post. I was thinking of making the same point but couldn't be bothered with the sums.

It's one of the facts that is (I suspect intentionally) overlooked and ignored by the politicians. We hear a lot of "it costs us £50 million a day" type arguments, but almost never that the amount we put in is 1% (approx) of our overall budget and for that 1% we get X, Y and Z in return.

The whole debate is being held around narrow "niggles" that mainly the tories and UKIPs have: Immigration, benefits, Cost, sovereignty, big business. And of those things, much are red-herringy anyway.

There's a whole lot more (good and bad) about being part of the EU that is just not mentioned, or barely mentioned.

 

I suppose if you accept that the whole raison d'etre for the existence of the EC is to create and expand markets, by bringing in new members and them building infrastructure, then paying £9bn for access to those markets seems reasonable, and refusing to contribute to creating those new markets seems unreasonable.

From a right-winger's point of view it seems likely that they just see a contribution of €17bn (£14bn) as just a part of the budget they are unable to cut and what is returned they probably would not spend anyway.

 

Edited by MakemineVanilla
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35 minutes ago, tonyh29 said:

 I'll bite at the troll attempt  ...

Labour MP for example

 

 

anyway in terms of the figures

£8.9 bn is still 10% of the education spend so I guess it would depend if you felt a 10% budget increase on education would be a better use of that money  ... of course that doesn't measure all the  tangible pros / cons outside of that  straight figure

Not a troll attempt. I'm talking about The MPs and campaigners. But even if I was talking about voters generally your point doesn't make sense. We know people have switched to voting UKIPs from labour and tory and yes I'm sure immigration was a  reason. But they are now UKIP. Playing with figures is just that - we could treble overseas aid, or give everyone a unicorn.  A tiny fraction of the budget is spent on yurp.

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I suppose this could/should have gone in the police state/state of policing thread but:

Hampshire school calls police after pupil looks at UKIP website

Quote

School staff called police when a pupil looked at a UKIP website and an English Defence League video in class.

Mick Taylor said his 15-year-old son was asked by police whether he was a UKIP activist, and has described police action as inappropriate.

The procedure left him feeling "like a terrorist", Mr Taylor added.

Police said Wildern School in Hedge End, Hampshire, acted in line with safeguarding procedures. UKIP said: "We're certainly not extremists."

Under the new counter terror act, staff at schools are asked to identify children who may be influenced by extremist material.

The school said it called 101 for advice after a student was viewing a range of different sites and was referred to a specialist team.

"If my son had been accessing these websites on a regular basis - then maybe there would be cause for concern," Mr Taylor said.

"But it's a one-off incident and I don't think it merited such an extreme section of the police coming in."

Head teacher Marie-Louise Litton said: "I wish to make it absolutely clear that the decision to pursue the matter further was not made by the school."

A spokesman from Hampshire Constabulary said: "The school contacted us in good faith and in complete accordance with their safeguarding procedures.

"We have a duty to respond to these concerns and we spoke to the pupil and his father informally about comments and internet usage at school."

No further action was taken.

UKIP's deputy leader Paul Nuttall reacted angrily at the suggestion the party's website was flagged in this way.

"I don't know how you can be extremists when you have 22 MEPs, a member of Parliament, three lords and 500 councillors all over the country," he said.

"We're certainly not extremists."

 

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1 hour ago, snowychap said:

Maybe but, either way, it's a load of old cock.

Please don't misunderstand me, I completely agree with you. 

Just trying to make the point that this was an inevitable consequence of getting teachers to do GCHQ's job for it. 

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2 hours ago, Dante_Lockhart said:

Can we still enter the Eurovision Song Contest if we leave the EU?

That's the important question.

It's a metaphor for the exit, we pay too much money into it, and they never let us win.

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Apparently BMW UK have written to all their employees telling them all the bad things that will happen if they vote to leave , Tariffs etc and how jobs will be at risk if the UK vote to leave

is it appropriate for companies  to get involved in politics ?

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