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The now-enacted will of (some of) the people


blandy

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2 minutes ago, sidcow said:

So it seems Boris can't get a Trade Deal out of the USA.  I thought this kind of thing was going to be easy? 

Sounds like instead we might have to join the North America trading block.  So. Without the power of Europe we now have the negotiating power of Canada and Mexico. That sounds decidedly league 2 to me. 

I hardly think Justin Trudeau is just going to let us join. I love the way its been put, like we might just have to apply for membership and getting in will be a foregone conclusion.

It's like they've learned absolutely nothing

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5 minutes ago, bickster said:

I hardly think Justin Trudeau is just going to let us join. I love the way its been put, like we might just have to apply for membership and getting in will be a foregone conclusion.

It's like they've learned absolutely nothing

They need us more than we need them. 

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What amazes me is promise after promise after promise has been broken. Prediction after prediction after prediction has come true. Pretty much nothing positive has come out yet, but people still defend it. 

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23 minutes ago, sidcow said:

What amazes me is promise after promise after promise has been broken. Prediction after prediction after prediction has come true. Pretty much nothing positive has come out yet, but people still defend it. 

Do you think every single person voting for brexit did so based on reason?  I believe one of the taglines was 'we've had enough of experts'.

It was a gut feeling 'to get rid of Brussels' and 'take back control'. That is the case today (more or less), so they're happy.

Edited by AXD
typo
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18 minutes ago, AXD said:

Do you think every single person voting for brexit did so based on reason?  I believe one of the taglines was 'we've had enough of experts'.

It was a gut feeling 'to get rid of Brussels' and 'take back control'. That is the case today (more or less), so they're happy.

I agree, some people will take comfort that the mythical control Brussels had had been taken away.

The pandemic proved that most of the control of the borders that people in the UK were worried about remained with the countries and not the EU anyway.

Also, when you look at the kind of crooks and scoundrels we have running the UK is it a bad thing that there’s another group maintaining some level of standards across the board? I’d say giving back control would be a genuine positive.

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The main line that Leave were using at the time of the vote was that Brexit would allow us to 'secure/take control of our borders', ie was an anti-immigrant line. And that is a promise that has not been broken, we have in fact 'taken control' of our borders with a tough new immigration act. If you're looking for 'why don't they feel like promises have been broken', that might be a good place to start.

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1 minute ago, HanoiVillan said:

The main line that Leave were using at the time of the vote was that Brexit would allow us to 'secure/take control of our borders', ie was an anti-immigrant line. And that is a promise that has not been broken, we have in fact 'taken control' of our borders with a tough new immigration act. If you're looking for 'why don't they feel like promises have been broken', that might be a good place to start.

Was just going to say, the main thing that got "Brexit done" was the xenophobic vote.  Sure, we're experiencing some issues in our supply chain - but at least a bunch of those Eastern European **** have gone back home.

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4 minutes ago, Straggler said:

Using logic or facts to win against a position that was never tethered to either is a real struggle.  It's not really a political conversation any more, it is more akin to arguing the existence of God with a priest.

Yes. God bless her, one Brexiter I talked to before the vote said "I don't use information to make decisions, I use my instinct".

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23 minutes ago, HanoiVillan said:

The main line that Leave were using at the time of the vote was that Brexit would allow us to 'secure/take control of our borders', ie was an anti-immigrant line. And that is a promise that has not been broken, we have in fact 'taken control' of our borders with a tough new immigration act. If you're looking for 'why don't they feel like promises have been broken', that might be a good place to start.

A big part of that was that by taking control there would somehow be less people crossing the channel on small boats. That hasn’t happened, in fact the opposite has happened. The EU are even less inclined to stop people making the trip now than when we were a member state.

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15 minutes ago, blandy said:

Yes. God bless her, one Brexiter I talked to before the vote said "I don't use information to make decisions, I use my instinct".

She does know that works both way's ?

If you were a doctor or a vet you could say "My instinct is to put you down like a 3 legged horse in the middle of the night,  no fuss, no need to wake anyone." 

Or were you chatting about thread deletion ? 

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10 minutes ago, Genie said:

That hasn’t happened, in fact the opposite has happened. France are even less inclined to stop people making the trip now than when we were a member state.

FTFY. Its an important distinction. We are now locked in a battle over money and ego between Macron / Johnson. You are correct in that the EU kinda stopped that in a very small way but it can't be said that the EU is less willing to help anymore because it's nothing to do with the EU its purely a Member State / Third Country border issue now

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12 minutes ago, Genie said:

A big part of that was that by taking control there would somehow be less people crossing the channel on small boats. That hasn’t happened, in fact the opposite has happened. The EU are even less inclined to stop people making the trip now than when we were a member state.

People feel that we have control of the borders 🤷‍♂️

The conversations you and I have on this thread keep feeling a bit surreal to me. You keep insisting that leavers should be feeling regret or that campaigning to rejoin the EU is an obvious electoral winner. But the observable reality is that there is no widespread regret among leavers; there are certainly people who have said they regret their vote when they have been interviewed on the news, but a few people expressing personal regret does not amount to a political campaign. The 'get Brexit done' Tories are still smashing the polls. No oppostion party is touting rejoining, in fact they are barely even criticising Brexit. All the para-political campaigns like the People's Vote and whatever packed up and went home. 'Pro-Europeanism' is visibly, observably, a deserted street with nothing but the occasional tumbleweed blowing past.

You're welcome to feel it *shouldn't* be that way, of course, but it feels like you keep insisting there's a political project where there clearly isn't one.

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22 minutes ago, HanoiVillan said:

No oppostion party is touting rejoining, in fact they are barely even criticising Brexit.

For the most part, they seem happy to be going along with the government's head-in-sand position that every problem is because of covid, and there's nothing to see here with Brexit. It's a tricky one, it's tempting to lampoon Johnson for being a chief enabler of this irredeemable farce, but as you say, half the country doesn't regret it at all, despite it staring them in the face that despite being promised "no downsides, just considerable upsides", that's not exactly what they've got. Nobody wants to reopen the Brexit can of worms though.

There's hardly any point constantly highlighting the examples of Johnson lying about the consequences of Brexit or his deal, because everyone knows he's a liar, and they did before he won a general election.

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1 hour ago, HanoiVillan said:

The main line that Leave were using at the time of the vote was that Brexit would allow us to 'secure/take control of our borders', ie was an anti-immigrant line. And that is a promise that has not been broken, we have in fact 'taken control' of our borders with a tough new immigration act. If you're looking for 'why don't they feel like promises have been broken', that might be a good place to start.

When we start satisfying the labour shortage with brown people those same people will be livid

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47 minutes ago, Chindie said:

As I've said before, I worked with someone who supported Brexit 'because it'll be interesting'.

We're **** as a species.

Yep. I know someone who told me they voted for it "to see what would happen".
wtf is wrong with people? It's the future of your country not Wagner winning X Factor.

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