The now-enacted will of (some of) the people

[Genie]

I saw a HGV job ad yesterday, join them and get a £2,000 bonus if you stay until at least October.

[ml1dch]

Come on, it's not all bad. At least it's given very stable and not-at-all-dangerous people like this complete validation of their worldview. 

(Newnight editor Nick Watt is the man they are chasing)

[sidcow]

45 minutes ago, villa4europe said:

Lack of skilled workers was a theme before brexit, it's been talked about since I entered the industry 15 years ago

Its a massive **** up that we seemingly put 0 infrastructure in place whilst we prolonged the brexit negotiations, there are several trades that are dominated by Eastern Europeans, Polish plasterers, Hungarian tilers etc and they're good too

One of the biggest or even only positives from brexit was that we should be more self sufficient, instead our government seems to think that the result of brexit is that everything comes from somewhere that isn't europe... We still don't make or do anything ourselves 

I agree it's been a long term issue but the stories have ramped up a lot in the last 18 months or so.

In fact the main headline on Construction Enquirer this morning is:

https://www.constructionenquirer.com/2021/06/15/eu-worker-shortages-driving-up-london-labour-rates/

EU worker shortages driving up London labour rates

Quote

New payroll data for self-employed workers during shows average earnings in London increased by 4.5% to £885 per week.

Ian Anfield, managing director of employment contract services specialist Hudson Contract, said: “We are starting to see the impact of people leaving the UK ahead of the EU Settlement Scheme deadline on June 30 and not being replaced by incomers.

“First and foremost, this is affecting London, which has the highest concentration of foreign construction workers and the most transient labour market.

“The Brexit effect on labour supply is slower the further away you go from the capital and many EU workers have settled in the North of England.”

He added: “In central London, the prime housing market is growing for the first time since the start of the pandemic, a sure sign of the high spirits felt across the entire sector.”

Quote

The West Midlands also saw a significant rise in weekly earnings for subcontractors, increasing by 3.5% to £920 during May.

The region tends to have a larger supply of domestic tradespeople that have traditionally commanded higher earnings.

The cost increase mirrors an acute shortage of building materials in the West Midlands as a result of significant house building activity and major infrastructure projects in Birmingham including new stations for high-speed rail and facilities for the Commonwealth Games in 2022.

Anfield added: “There is shedloads of construction work about and growing pressure on the availability of both labour and materials.

 

[Ingram85]

It’s really quite simple for these affronted farmers and construction bosses, well for any boss of any sector: Pay a decent wage and people will do the jobs. It’s not hard to work out. People aren’t going to do any old job for peanuts when they have the astronomical bills/rent/mortgage to pay for in a current society.

[Davkaus]

13 hours ago, bickster said:

Would anyone like to see a translation of what Macron actually said that enraged Johnson?

Can't top lying

How bizarre does it feel listening to a prominent politician talking calmly, reasonably and with an understanding of the subject matter? This is what a national leader should sound like.

Johnson's response:

[villa4europe]

Your career advisor will never ever tell you that the average wage in construction is £920 a week

Its still a dirty looked down on industry... Full of some of the cleverest and hardest working guys you'll ever meet

The main difference I've found compared to other industries (I've worked in retail and manufacturing) is that you get rewarded for your work

The idea that it's the work of immigrants won't shake it but they desperately need brickies and plasterers, wet plastering especially thats a dying skill

[fightoffyour]

Hang on, there's a lack of both skilled workers and unskilled workers? What is there an abundance of, if anything? [In before anyone answers "rocket polishers".]

Edited June 15, 2021 by fightoffyour

[villa4europe]

1 minute ago, fightoffyour said:

Hang on, there's a lack of both skilled workers and unskilled workers? What is there an abundance of, if anything? [In before anyone answers "rocket polishers".]

Service positions that can be outsourced cheaper...

 

[blandy]

23 minutes ago, Ingram85 said:

It’s really quite simple for these affronted farmers and construction bosses, well for any boss of any sector: Pay a decent wage and people will do the jobs. It’s not hard to work out. People aren’t going to do any old job for peanuts when they have the astronomical bills/rent/mortgage to pay for in a current society.

You're right. But there's a bit more to it - I mean if construction workers wages go up and material costs go up, then buildings cost more to build - and so cost more to buy, which means bigger mortgages, which means higher bills to pay...it's an inflationary circle.

[villa4europe]

34 minutes ago, Ingram85 said:

It’s really quite simple for these affronted farmers and construction bosses, well for any boss of any sector: Pay a decent wage and people will do the jobs. It’s not hard to work out. People aren’t going to do any old job for peanuts when they have the astronomical bills/rent/mortgage to pay for in a current society.

Not that simple in construction 

The wages are decent, its higher than minimum wage, you have to earn it though, if you want £1000+ as a bricklayer you have to go through thr slog of being a bricklayer appretenice and labourer, you've got to properly grind to get to the money literally get your hands dirty and put your back in to it and that comes with a stigma of "only" being a bricklayer 

There's a lack of interest in it because schools and especially career advisors are seemingly uninterested or unaware of what it's all about

My school was uni or bust, if you weren't a going to uni statistic they didn't give a single shit what you did when you left, construction or farming were never even discussed as a possibility or pushed towards by teachers, you'd have been laughed at at my school if your ambition was to be a farmer 

Its a whole cultural problem and "beneath me" occupation, I'll add cleaning as a 3rd which is more on the nose as beneath people 

[Ingram85]

I’m just explaining, as an unskilled worker, why most unskilled people won’t go for those jobs. We need a decent realistic livable wage from the get go. Yes, companies profits may take a hit but some profit is better than having no profit due to no workforce. Something for something. 

[Genie]

2 minutes ago, Ingram85 said:

I’m just explaining, as an unskilled worker, why most unskilled people won’t go for those jobs. We need a decent realistic livable wage from the get go. Yes, companies profits may take a hit but some profit is better than having no profit due to no workforce. Something for something. 

If the margin for the increased wages is there then yes.

If increased wages puts the price above what other companies can supply for then they’ll go bust quickly.

[sidcow]

1 hour ago, Ingram85 said:

It’s really quite simple for these affronted farmers and construction bosses, well for any boss of any sector: Pay a decent wage and people will do the jobs. It’s not hard to work out. People aren’t going to do any old job for peanuts when they have the astronomical bills/rent/mortgage to pay for in a current society.

Farmers are held over a barrel by supermarkets on pricing, they can't pay higher wages, and I think regardless there wouldn't be enough interest in UK residents just wouldn't be interested, not till wages got just ridiculous. 

I always remember one of my lecturers at college telling me that the best paid summer job he ever had was at a washing powder factory dropping the cup into each box of powder.  It was so mind numbingly boring they just couldn't get anyone to do it so had to pay silly money and even then he couldn't stick it for more than a couple of weeks. 

Obviously that job would be mechanised now, and I suspect fruit picking will go down that route.  You will probably see smaller farmers being pushed out until we end up with a small number of super fruit farms who can afford what will be very expensive and complicated fruit picking machines,  because I understand its complicated to pick fruit with machines. 

Construction jobs are (generally) already well paid, I don't think there are any workers being exploited by evil construction company bosses. There are just not enough people around now. 

You'll probably see some Harry Enfield type loads'a'money types about.  Apparently last year many workers were swapping between Spurs Stadium and Crossrail on a weekly basis being offered higher wages each week to swap jobs as they competed against each other for labour. 

My son has just finished his A Levels and doesn't really know what he wants to do, I keep telling him to go into construction but he's just not interested.   I keep telling him he's mad as he will get a job and it will be well paid but he won't be told. 

Edited June 15, 2021 by sidcow

[villa4europe]

6 minutes ago, sidcow said:

Farmers are held over a barrel by supermarkets on pricing, they can't pay higher wages, and I think regardless there wouldn't be enough interest in UK residents just wouldn't be interested, not till wages got just ridiculous. 

I always remember one of my lectures at college telling me that the best paid summer job he ever had was as a washing powder factory dropping the cup into each box of powder.  I was so mind numbingly boring they just couldn't get anyone to do it so had to pay silly money and even then he couldn't stick it for more than a couple of weeks. 

Obviously that job would be mechanised now, and I suspect fruit picking will go down that route.  You will probably see smaller farmers being pushed out until we end up with a small number of super fruit farms who can afford what will be very expensive and complicated fruit picking machines,  because I understand its complicated to pick fruit with machines. 

Construction jobs are (generally) already well paid, I don't think there are any workers being exploited by evil construction company bosses. There are just not enough people around now. 

You'll probably see some Harry Enfield type loads'a'money types about.  Apparently last year many workers were swapping between Spurs Stadium and Crossrail on a weekly basis being offered higher wages each week to swap jobs as they competed against each other for labour. 

My son has just finished his A Levels and doesn't really know what he wants to do, I keep telling him to go into construction but he's just not interested.   I keep telling him he's mad as he will get a job and it will be well paid but he won't be told. 

Tell him to find a main contractor who will pay him to go to uni part time and put him in a construction management role 

That's what I did 

And your comment on the wages in correct, there's not a shortage because of wages, the wages are ok to good, there's a shortage because of the view of the industry, why lift bricks when you can work in IT

Edited June 15, 2021 by villa4europe

[Genie]

I don’t think people realise that farmers and supermarkets have an unusual relationship where the buyer tells the seller the price they will pay.

There was a big thing about the price of milk a few years back. This is what we pay, if you don’t like it then jog on we’ll find another supplier. 

[sidcow]

4 minutes ago, villa4europe said:

Tell him to find a main contractor who will pay him to go to uni part time and put him in a construction management role 

That's what I did 

I know, I have contacts at such companies even, but he's just not interested. 

He likes fast cars, so he wants to do something with cars.  So instead of joining and industry with labour shortages which is booming, join an industry which is struggling and on a constant cycle of cost cutting. 

Doing my head in to be honest. 

Edited June 15, 2021 by sidcow

[villa4europe]

Just now, sidcow said:

I know, I have contacts at such companies even, but he's just not interested. 

He likes fast cars, so he wants to do something with cars.  So instead of joining and industry with labour shortages which is booming, join an industry which is struggling and on a constant cycle of cost cutting. 

Doing my head in to be honest. 

Wages have seemingly gone up by around 10% since I left 2 years a go too, I had a look at going back to my old company and they were paying £10k a year more 

[SuperTed]

On 11/06/2021 at 18:15, blandy said:

It's not just "patriots" against joining the Euro. I'm dead against it. Not for ideological reasons, but practical ones. When it was first talked about, way back, I was in favour, but realistically you'd need aligned tax systems and all the rest for it to work properly.

Where you have such a vast range of different economies - some in growth, some in recession, some flat-lining a single Central European Bank (ECB) only has one lever for interest rate and so on. This is essentially incompatible with the varying different needs of the different member states. One state may be crying out for interest rate rises, and another for interest rates to fall.

The second reason is that when it was introduced, and just before, I used to work in Italy quite a lot. An Italian colleague who was also a local politician kept saying "you guys should join the Euro" and so on, but then after it was introduced he was angry at the way all the prices had gone up overnight and everything was more expensive (and it really was). It hit their standard of living.

It really would have to be a European super state for the Euro to work effectively and bring about improvement. Governments would need to relinquish more control over their own economies and such like.

There are some pros as well as cons, but the Euro has a had a rocky, rocky ride at times and hasn't remotely brought about the benefits that were promised.

Really learned something there. Thanks @blandy

[LondonLax]

1 hour ago, blandy said:

You're right. But there's a bit more to it - I mean if construction workers wages go up and material costs go up, then buildings cost more to build - and so cost more to buy, which means bigger mortgages, which means higher bills to pay...it's an inflationary circle.

It is an inflationary circle but the first place to take a hit is profits at the top. It's the same thing that you see with legislating a high minimum wage, yes there is some inflation but the gap between the richest and the poorest gets smaller when the poorest are paid more, conversely the gap gets bigger when you can screw down labour costs.  

[Genie]

There’s no excuse for house builders, they’ve been recording enormous profits for years. This latest spike in house prices is more money on top.