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The now-enacted will of (some of) the people


blandy

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As a hardcore Remainer,  I actually would have voted to leave the EU if the choice had been either to join the Euro or leave the EU entirely. I just thought that the UK previously had a very priviledged position within the EU and we would be absolutely mad to give that up.

Out of curiosity, do any other Remainers feel the same way? Or would joining the Euro have been a small price to pay for remaining within the EU?

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6 minutes ago, Panto_Villan said:

As a hardcore Remainer,  I actually would have voted to leave the EU if the choice had been either to join the Euro or leave the EU entirely. I just thought that the UK previously had a very priviledged position within the EU and we would be absolutely mad to give that up.

Out of curiosity, do any other Remainers feel the same way? Or would joining the Euro have been a small price to pay for remaining within the EU?

I'd have absolutely welcomed joining the Euro, we should have done it from the off

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I voted leave because I thought we would get rid of decimalisation and have a return to the gold standard whilst basking in splendid isolation. 

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5 minutes ago, Follyfoot said:

I voted leave because I thought we would get rid of decimalisation and have a return to the gold standard whilst basking in splendid isolation. 

I’m back listening to Radio 4 at the moment. It won’t be for long, its awful.

A couple of mornings ago, somebody from the US was talking and said we’d missed a deal ‘by millimeters’.

In the news summary, 10 minutes later, his comment was reported / summarised as ‘a spokesman for Washington said, we missed out on the deal by a sixteenth of an inch’.

My gob was smacked, why not give the actual quote? Why the need to guess how many millimeters he meant and then convert that to imperial?

 

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1 hour ago, Panto_Villan said:

As a hardcore Remainer,  I actually would have voted to leave the EU if the choice had been either to join the Euro or leave the EU entirely. I just thought that the UK previously had a very priviledged position within the EU and we would be absolutely mad to give that up.

Out of curiosity, do any other Remainers feel the same way? Or would joining the Euro have been a small price to pay for remaining within the EU?

I think we have to give it a few years now to see how we make it on the outside. 

If it's clearly not working we should try and go back in on the best terms we can. 

On The Euro, I'll leave that to people more knowledgeable than me. It would be a shame from a purely tradition and national pride angle, but that's no deal breaker if The Euro makes more sense. 

Would be kind of ironic if Brexit ultimately ended up with us back in Europe with The Euro and more closely aligned. They would have to close down whatever old people's home Farage is in by then as he'd probably self combust. 

Edited by sidcow
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1 hour ago, Panto_Villan said:

As a hardcore Remainer,  I actually would have voted to leave the EU if the choice had been either to join the Euro or leave the EU entirely. I just thought that the UK previously had a very priviledged position within the EU and we would be absolutely mad to give that up.

Out of curiosity, do any other Remainers feel the same way? Or would joining the Euro have been a small price to pay for remaining within the EU?

Can you tell us why you’re so strongly against the Euro? No judgment or anything, just wondering why you think it’s important?

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3 hours ago, chrisp65 said:

We need to move on from discussing rejoining.

The UK has left. Let’s work out how to make the best of that.

 

The leavers didn’t. They started plotting to leave the moment the 1975 referendum confirmed our entry. If you believe in something, never stop fighting for it. They taught me that at least.

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2 hours ago, Panto_Villan said:

As a hardcore Remainer,  I actually would have voted to leave the EU if the choice had been either to join the Euro or leave the EU entirely. I just thought that the UK previously had a very priviledged position within the EU and we would be absolutely mad to give that up.

Out of curiosity, do any other Remainers feel the same way? Or would joining the Euro have been a small price to pay for remaining within the EU?

Since it’s inception, the Euro has steadily become stronger than the pound. It started at 1.42 Euros to the pound in 1999. It’s current rate is 1.16. We’ve all lost out.

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6 hours ago, sidcow said:

I think we have to give it a few years now to see how we make it on the outside. 

If it's clearly not working we should try and go back in on the best terms we can. 

On The Euro, I'll leave that to people more knowledgeable than me. It would be a shame from a purely tradition and national pride angle, but that's no deal breaker if The Euro makes more sense. 

Would be kind of ironic if Brexit ultimately ended up with us back in Europe with The Euro and more closely aligned. They would have to close down whatever old people's home Farage is in by then as he'd probably self combust. 

The U.K. is not going to rejoin the EU in my lifetime.

I could see the U.K. joining the single market at some point though with a Norway or Swiss style arrangement. 

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8 minutes ago, LondonLax said:

The U.K. is not going to rejoin the EU in my lifetime.

I honestly don't think there'll be a UK in your lifetime, 3 of the 4 constituent countries will be back in the EU and once you get to that level, who knows what will happen. I think NI and Scotland will be out of the UK inside 10-15 years

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16 minutes ago, bickster said:

I honestly don't think there'll be a UK in your lifetime, 3 of the 4 constituent countries will be back in the EU and once you get to that level, who knows what will happen. I think NI and Scotland will be out of the UK inside 10-15 years

Yes it could definitely go that way. 

The practicalities of that (requiring a hard customs border between Scotland and England or Wales and England) would probably necessitate England joining the single market though. 

Edited by LondonLax
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From what I remember with countries like Spain when they joined the Euro there was initially a big spike in inflation.

I think a path to potentially rejoining the EU at some point is possible, and people would go for it, but not with changing to the Euro. I think that will be a red line for a lot of “patriots”.
 

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10 hours ago, Panto_Villan said:

As a hardcore Remainer,  I actually would have voted to leave the EU if the choice had been either to join the Euro or leave the EU entirely. I just thought that the UK previously had a very priviledged position within the EU and we would be absolutely mad to give that up.

Out of curiosity, do any other Remainers feel the same way? Or would joining the Euro have been a small price to pay for remaining within the EU?

Yes, I feel the same way. I would not want to join the single currency.

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8 hours ago, Enda said:

Can you tell us why you’re so strongly against the Euro? No judgment or anything, just wondering why you think it’s important?

Long and dry answer, you've been warned!

Basically you lose quite a lot of fiscal flexibility if you don't control your own currency, but the big problem is that it pretty much guarantees ever closer political union as leaving the Euro is pretty much impossible (understandably) but the necessary political structures for managing the currency don't yet fully exist at the European level.

Therefore what you see in every economic crisis is some of the roles of a sovereign government moving up to EU level - the European Central Bank becoming dominant over national central banks, or most recently when the EU has started borrowing collectively rather than each country having its own government bonds (which would have been unthinkable ten years ago - remember the German howls of protest when German money had to be used to bail out Greece?)

Long term that means the Eurozone countries have to end up forming a federal Europe like the United States of Europe if they want the Euro to survive - and letting it die would be so economically damaging it's pretty much inconcievable these days.

Honestly, I think the UK is better watching the formation of that bloc from the outside and then deciding whether it wants to join from the outside. It's a shame we left because we would have been able to do that from inside the EU if we'd voted to Remain.

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7 hours ago, Panto_Villan said:

Long and dry answer, you've been warned!

Basically you lose quite a lot of fiscal flexibility if you don't control your own currency, but the big problem is that it pretty much guarantees ever closer political union as leaving the Euro is pretty much impossible (understandably) but the necessary political structures for managing the currency don't yet fully exist at the European level.

Therefore what you see in every economic crisis is some of the roles of a sovereign government moving up to EU level - the European Central Bank becoming dominant over national central banks, or most recently when the EU has started borrowing collectively rather than each country having its own government bonds (which would have been unthinkable ten years ago - remember the German howls of protest when German money had to be used to bail out Greece?)

Long term that means the Eurozone countries have to end up forming a federal Europe like the United States of Europe if they want the Euro to survive - and letting it die would be so economically damaging it's pretty much inconcievable these days.

Honestly, I think the UK is better watching the formation of that bloc from the outside and then deciding whether it wants to join from the outside. It's a shame we left because we would have been able to do that from inside the EU if we'd voted to Remain.

That’s a well reasoned argument, made me think. But overall, I think I would still be prepared to join the Euro. With theCity of London being a World Centre of finance, in all likelihood we would increase our influence within the Eurozone. Plus smaller currencies ,though superficially independent of foreign influence, are in practice at the mercy of the over mighty Dollar and other mega currencies.

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Obviously I'm as head-screwed-on-right, f*** Brexit and all who sail in her, sensible as they come.

But that being said...why exactly do Charles Michel and Ursula Von Der Leyen need to be here?

E3mzAtnWQAUG9xD?format=jpg&name=900x900

Edited by ml1dch
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3 minutes ago, ml1dch said:

Obviously I'm as head-screwed-on-right, f*** Brexit and all who sail in her, sensible as they come.

But that being said...why exactly do Charles Michel and Ursula Von Der Leyen need to be here?

E3mzAtnWQAUG9xD?format=jpg&name=900x900

I think they had to check the sausages.

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4 minutes ago, ml1dch said:

Obviously I'm as head-screwed-on-right, f*** Brexit and all who sail in her, sensible as they come.

But that being said...why exactly do Charles Michel and Ursula Von Der Leyen need to be here?

E3mzAtnWQAUG9xD?format=jpg&name=900x900

Wildcard pick.

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So this week we have Biden showing his support lies with the EU, this miserable person admitting Brexit threw NI under the bus but was “a price worth paying”, and unionists marching in balaclavas.

Cool, cool.

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