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The now-enacted will of (some of) the people


blandy

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1 hour ago, Seat68 said:

 

I’m as anti Brexit as anyone but I still find it interesting how this is framed by the media, with a similar story from the Guardian here:

Quote

Pubs and restaurateurs agree that there is a particular challenge in the south-east of England and London as a lack of supply of skilled people from the EU, post-Brexit, is causing issues with hiring staff, especially in the kitchen. More than 30% of hospitality workers across the UK are thought to have come from Europe pre-Brexit but that rises to more than half of those employed in London.

 https://www.theguardian.com/business/2021/may/01/uk-restaurants-pubs-brexit-staff-covid

Now if you are looking at this from the point of view of the wealthy employers like Tim Martin this is a problem. However if you are looking at it from the point of view of young unemployed British people, a massive demand for labour and a shortage of workers is great news. You would have thought a publication like the Guardian would be seeing a silver lining and championing opportunities for young unemployed working class people.

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9 hours ago, LondonLax said:

I’m as anti Brexit as anyone but I still find it interesting how this is framed by the media, with a similar story from the Guardian here:

 https://www.theguardian.com/business/2021/may/01/uk-restaurants-pubs-brexit-staff-covid

Now if you are looking at this from the point of view of the wealthy employers like Tim Martin this is a problem. However if you are looking at it from the point of view of young unemployed British people, a massive demand for labour and a shortage of workers is great news. You would have thought a publication like the Guardian would be seeing a silver lining and championing opportunities for young unemployed working class people.

They're not really reframing anything. They're reporting what Tim Martin, and it appears other people, are saying. There might be some inference of hypocrisy in the comparison to how he campaigned for Brexit, but I think the media works best when it's not trying to tell people what to think. 

 

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12 hours ago, LondonLax said:

I’m as anti Brexit as anyone but I still find it interesting how this is framed by the media, with a similar story from the Guardian here:

 https://www.theguardian.com/business/2021/may/01/uk-restaurants-pubs-brexit-staff-covid

Now if you are looking at this from the point of view of the wealthy employers like Tim Martin this is a problem. However if you are looking at it from the point of view of young unemployed British people, a massive demand for labour and a shortage of workers is great news. You would have thought a publication like the Guardian would be seeing a silver lining and championing opportunities for young unemployed working class people.

"Lack of skilled people" is the problem. The local young unemployed British people aren't skilled. The employers think that it isn't their role to pay them to train.

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3 hours ago, Genie said:

So wages will go up to fill the roles, something (short sighted) Brexiteers will be happy about?

Wages go up and prices rise. Personally I'm OK with that if people get a decent wage for what is a difficult job with unsociable hours, but there will be a lot of Brexiteers moaning about the price of their pint rising. And I'm not sure how that will play out with a sector already under huge pressure from supermarket drink at home competition. I think more (mainly poor admittedly) pubs will close. 

Maybe this was all the masterplan from Martin. In the race to the pricing bottom he's always going to come out winner. May see more drinkers from mid priced pubs dropping down to Wetherspoons.  God I hate Wetherspoons. 

Edited by sidcow
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43 minutes ago, limpid said:

"Lack of skilled people" is the problem. The local young unemployed British people aren't skilled. The employers think that it isn't their role to pay them to train.

Sure, it seems like those employers will have to do a bit more to work with the labour force available rather than just passing over local people and making use of people trained abroad. 

There will likely be cost implications for that which will be passed on to the customer but a story like this can very much be spun in different directions depending on the editorial line the media organisation wants to take. 

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10 hours ago, limpid said:

"Lack of skilled people" is the problem. The local young unemployed British people aren't skilled. The employers think that it isn't their role to pay them to train.

 

9 hours ago, LondonLax said:

Sure, it seems like those employers will have to do a bit more to work with the labour force available rather than just passing over local people and making use of people trained abroad. 

There will likely be cost implications for that which will be passed on to the customer but a story like this can very much be spun in different directions depending on the editorial line the media organisation wants to take. 

 

As someone that works for a company struggling to recruit, because the Spanish, Portuguese and Bulgarians have literally all gone back home, I think there is slightly more to it than employers thinking it isn’t their role to train.

Twenty years ago, we had an agreed framework of rates, and an industry standard on how long design drawings took.

There has been a ‘liberalisation’ of the industry, lead by Government Departments and blue chip companies. The rate card is a thing of the past, government contracts are won on a strictly lowest price wins basis.

Tenders that once gave you 18 weeks design time, got dropped to 12 weeks, then 9 weeks. The vast majority of work we now have, has a 6 week turnaround.

Less time to do the same work, on a lowest price wins basis. We can stick to our principles and take on apprentices and students and mentor them, we can pay architects the salary they believe they warrant. We can carefully consider aspects of aesthetics within the design. But we’d close down before the end of the year.

If the government want us to train the unskilled, perhaps they’d like to re frame everyone’s tendering framework.

 

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17 minutes ago, chrisp65 said:

 

 

As someone that works for a company struggling to recruit, because the Spanish, Portuguese and Bulgarians have literally all gone back home, I think there is slightly more to it than employers thinking it isn’t their role to train.

Twenty years ago, we had an agreed framework of rates, and an industry standard on how long design drawings took.

There has been a ‘liberalisation’ of the industry, lead by Government Departments and blue chip companies. The rate card is a thing of the past, government contracts are won on a strictly lowest price wins basis.

Tenders that once gave you 18 weeks design time, got dropped to 12 weeks, then 9 weeks. The vast majority of work we now have, has a 6 week turnaround.

Less time to do the same work, on a lowest price wins basis. We can stick to our principles and take on apprentices and students and mentor them, we can pay architects the salary they believe they warrant. We can carefully consider aspects of aesthetics within the design. But we’d close down before the end of the year.

If the government want us to train the unskilled, perhaps they’d like to re frame everyone’s tendering framework.

 

I work in a similar industry to yourself but my recent experience is from Australia where it is far more difficult to get skilled labour from abroad.

At the consultancy I worked at we basically couldn’t afford to hire senior staff direct, we couldn’t match the wages of the multinational engineering firms and there is not a steady stream of Spanish or Portuguese or Bulgarians willing to come in on a lower wage. Essentially all the senior engineers in the consultancy we had trained up from new graduates. Our main problem was that we would take them in from uni, spend a few years getting them up to speed whereby they would then either head off to a multinational or even start a rival consultancy 🙄

It might be that this is what happens in the UK as well going forward?

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4 minutes ago, LondonLax said:

I work in a similar industry to yourself but my recent experience is from Australia where it is far more difficult to get skilled labour from abroad.

At the consultancy I worked at we basically couldn’t afford to hire senior staff direct, we couldn’t match the wages of the multinational engineering firms and there is not a steady stream of Spanish or Portuguese or Bulgarians willing to come in on a lower wage. Essentially all the senior engineers in the consultancy we had trained up from new graduates. Our main problem was that we would take them in from uni, spend a few years getting them up to speed whereby they would then either head off to a multinational or even start a rival consultancy 🙄

It might be that this is what happens in the UK as well going forward?

That pretty much describes our old model, from before Blair’s Labour govt took us down a different route and turbo charged the import of cheap pre trained staff.

Slightly ironic that what used to traditionally be the ‘professional’ expensive side of the industry was taken down a stack ‘em high, sell ‘em cheap route at the same time they burdened future generations with the costs of PFI projects.

There will come a point where there is no new technical staff coming through in the UK. At that point, there will be three options:

Reset the current design framework.

Reset immigration policy back to what it was.

Offshore the design element / service side of construction.

 

I’ll give you a clue where it’s going, I now have to deal with Indian sweatshop / call centre style design services that promise literally overnight turnaround of 3D models, and I receive invoices for apparently UK based M&E companies and the invoice is generated from Malaysia.

Bloody Europeans, taking our jobs. 

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Just now, KenjiOgiwara said:

No. A political talent? :mrgreen:

In the currently hottly contested politicial incompetence olympics, she's in the UK team in an usually large number of events and could get medals in all of them

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10 hours ago, bickster said:

Do you have any knowledge of Liz Truss?

I'm shocked she hasn't claimed it's excellent news for UK Pineapple farmers

I have knowledge of her. Wonder what she’d trade for my sausage. 

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