penguin Posted March 22, 2016 Share Posted March 22, 2016 34 minutes ago, villa4europe said: If it's the nail in the coffin then I think that just emphasises how much bollocks the go campaign is based on Firstly we need to sort ourselves out before we worry about terrorists travelling here Secondly in or out of the EU what are you expecting to change at passport control? Because apart from them having to join a different queue the answer in my head is nothing Thirdly us being part of the EU makes us no more or less of a target, we still ally ourselves with the states and more than likely will ally ourselves with a host of EU countries on numerous decisions Today unfortunately will but really shouldn't have any impact Well there is clearly a bit more to it than this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villa4europe Posted March 22, 2016 Share Posted March 22, 2016 My point is they still have to go through passport control, EU resident or not, flying from inside or outside of the EU you go through passport control Afaik non EU residents have a slip of paper to fill in where you have to declare where you're staying and how long you're here for etc no one is going to write "terrorist" under occupation Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tonyh29 Posted March 22, 2016 Share Posted March 22, 2016 1 minute ago, villa4europe said: no one is going to write "terrorist" under occupation that reminds me .. I've not been to the US for a while , do they still have that question on their visa waiver form ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mjmooney Posted March 22, 2016 VT Supporter Share Posted March 22, 2016 27 minutes ago, villa4europe said: My point is they still have to go through passport control, EU resident or not, flying from inside or outside of the EU you go through passport control Afaik non EU residents have a slip of paper to fill in where you have to declare where you're staying and how long you're here for etc no one is going to write "terrorist" under occupation The broadcaster Gilbert Harding, when asked on a US visa application "Do you intend the undermine the Constitution of the United States of America" he replied "Sole purpose of visit", a reply that many people in Britain felt was the only sensible reply to a very silly question. He was nearly denied a visa. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blandy Posted March 22, 2016 Author Moderator Share Posted March 22, 2016 1 hour ago, Awol said: Yeah I suppose he's just a dissident and has no real authority. Perhaps a more interesting remark was made by the man who actually ended the Cold War and dismantled Soviet Communism, Mikhail Gorbachev: “The most puzzling development in politics during the last decade is the apparent determination of Western European leaders to re-create the Soviet Union in Western Europe.” Poacher turned Gamekeeper, or another one talking out of his hat when drawing parallels between the two systems? I wasn't concentrating on who he is or was, not basing my comments on that. I just don't think the arguments he presented were remotely compelling, or by and large made anything like a credible.case for his claims. I also think that if you look at Gorbachev's quote (made around 9 years ago, talking about the decade preceding that), well it clearly hasn't come to pass. The Soviet Union hasn't been recreated in Western Europe. It's just a ludicrous comparison all round. I'd just like to add again that I'm not really all that keen on the EU, I'm not writing this out of some love of the EU. It's just that it's a rubbish argument, to my ears. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blandy Posted March 22, 2016 Author Moderator Share Posted March 22, 2016 1 hour ago, penguin said: Well there is clearly a bit more to it than this. Such as - genuinely. If we leave (or stay) what difference will that make to our border control process? or to our overall "war on terror"? Why will it make us more or less likely to be got at by the bomby-muslimists? 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
penguin Posted March 22, 2016 Share Posted March 22, 2016 18 minutes ago, blandy said: Such as - genuinely. If we leave (or stay) what difference will that make to our border control process? or to our overall "war on terror"? Why will it make us more or less likely to be got at by the bomby-muslimists? I can't say I'm an expert on our border security or law. Although I'm certain there is a bit more too it than none EU visitors simply waiting in a different queue, especially those from more high risk countries. As for you other questions please refer to my first sentence. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blandy Posted March 22, 2016 Author Moderator Share Posted March 22, 2016 8 minutes ago, penguin said: I can't say I'm an expert on our border security or law. Although I'm certain there is a bit more too it than none EU visitors simply waiting in a different queue, especially those from more high risk countries. As for you other questions please refer to my first sentence. So that's an "I have no idea" answer, then. (Me either). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
penguin Posted March 22, 2016 Share Posted March 22, 2016 7 minutes ago, blandy said: So that's an "I have no idea" answer, then. (Me either). Yes, although I was never arguing those points to begin with just. Just the point that there's absolutely no difference between an EU national and someone else entering the country besides a different queue, when I'm sure there is at least a little more too it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blandy Posted March 22, 2016 Author Moderator Share Posted March 22, 2016 Just now, penguin said: I'm sure there is at least a little more too it. I don't think there is that much more to it. Sure people from some non-EU countries might need Visas, and thus undergo some degree of checking, but the for Commonwealth nations, and other friendly countries I don't think there's that much difference. Just on numbers, there are so many people visit the UK that the level of checking can't be that deep or that certain of stopping rum 'uns. Could be wrong though. It's kind of why I asked, in case you did know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villa4europe Posted March 22, 2016 Share Posted March 22, 2016 I know that a UK passport will get you in to more countries than any other in the world ie we are visa exempt if just travelling , rightly or wrongly assumed that in return we will let a lot of people in without visas Like I said I'm not sure if non eu residents have to fill in a small form similar to how we do when visiting the states I do know for a fact that our passport control separates non eu residents out hence the alternative queue comment , how they process that paperwork back at hq I don't know but on the face of it there is very little difference My argument would be I'm not sure how a Muslim terrorist with no flags against him travelling from Belgium would change if we left the eu, I don't see how we would identify and stop him, therefore the notion that Wed be safer simply isn't true Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villa4europe Posted March 22, 2016 Share Posted March 22, 2016 Sorry should have added, that man can tracker from Belgium to France freely, hence why people think it, but he can't travel here freely anyway Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blandy Posted March 22, 2016 Author Moderator Share Posted March 22, 2016 6 minutes ago, villa4europe said: My argument would be I'm not sure how a Muslim terrorist with no flags against him travelling from Belgium would change if we left the eu, I don't see how we would identify and stop him, therefore the notion that Wed be safer simply isn't true Agreed. We'd probably have to have the same freedom of movement if we wanted to be in the European Free trade area and have no tarriffs, anyway. Everyone else does. Both sides have tried to claim we'd be safer if we stay/leave. Sound like guff to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zak Posted March 22, 2016 Share Posted March 22, 2016 (edited) Im not sure i get the argument, if we exit or not, a Muslim terrorist travelling from Belgium needs to go in the long queue if hes not from EU anyway. Are we thus talking about potential European (Passport Holding) Muslim Terrorists? Edited March 22, 2016 by zak Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mantis Posted March 22, 2016 Share Posted March 22, 2016 I'll be voting to leave but I think people on both sides trying to use this attack to justify their position are wrong. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisp65 Posted March 22, 2016 Share Posted March 22, 2016 2 hours ago, zak said: Im not sure i get the argument, if we exit or not, a Muslim terrorist travelling from Belgium needs to go in the long queue if hes not from EU anyway. Are we thus talking about potential European (Passport Holding) Muslim Terrorists? yeah, I think we're talking about euro passport terrorists Like the ones from Leeds, Bradford and Aylesbury that carried out the July 2005 tube and bus bombings in London. If we vote leave, that couldn't happen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MakemineVanilla Posted March 26, 2016 Share Posted March 26, 2016 Inevitably the Brexit lobbying would make its way onto the football pages. In the Times, Baroness Brady of Pornville, says it will be bad for football because it would stop English clubs from recruiting 16 year-olds from Europe. On the next page there is an article quoting Cruyff after England's failure to qualify for Euro 2008 - the infamous 'wally with the brolly' game. Cruyff said it was a direct result of England's youth policy and the way big clubs don't coach them, they stockpile them. Chelsea, presently have 34 youngsters out on loan, to prove the point. It is tough but I now have to decide who I believe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tonyh29 Posted April 6, 2016 Share Posted April 6, 2016 Every UK house to get a lovely glossy leaflet from the government explaining why we should stay in... A snip at £9m the out campaign don't appear to have access to the same resources ? Seems a tad biased . Also might have helped to have put both arguments side by side to let people weigh them up simultaneously ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
djdabush Posted April 6, 2016 Share Posted April 6, 2016 9 minutes ago, tonyh29 said: Every UK house to get a lovely glossy leaflet from the government explaining why we should stay in... A snip at £9m the out campaign don't appear to have access to the same resources ? Seems a tad biased . Also might have helped to have put both arguments side by side to let people weigh them up simultaneously ? I've already had a letter from the leave campaign, sadly it was not glossy however and I encountered some irritation whilst wiping. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tonyh29 Posted April 6, 2016 Share Posted April 6, 2016 4 minutes ago, djdabush said: I've already had a letter from the leave campaign, sadly it was not glossy however and I encountered some irritation whilst wiping. Was it a UKIP newspaper thingy ( we've had one of them ) or a proper lave campaign leaflet ( not had one of them ) ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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