Amsterdam_Neil_D Posted October 21, 2020 Share Posted October 21, 2020 16 hours ago, StefanAVFC said: Can't even get a deal with Greater Manchester. I find the word Greater offensive in this sentence. I put forward the motion "Fungus" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cyrusr Posted October 21, 2020 VT Supporter Share Posted October 21, 2020 1 hour ago, snowychap said: This unelected mass of people only there by who their mates are actually more democratic than those who are meant to be represent the people. It’s just daft position to be in. To be honest and sadly won’t really change anything as the commons will push it through, unless the Lords go completely rogue and go against protocol. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snowychap Posted October 21, 2020 Share Posted October 21, 2020 (edited) 8 minutes ago, cyrusr said: To be honest and sadly won’t really change anything as the commons will push it through, unless the Lords go completely rogue and go against protocol. It's not completely rogue but at the end of that thread, there's a link within a tweet to this speech which details what may happen: Quote Lord Butler of Brockwell Crossbench 6:01 pm, 19th October 2020 My Lords, I congratulate the noble Baroness, Lady Hayman of Ullock, on her maiden speech, which I heard with great pleasure from the Strangers’ Gallery. ... I shall address my remarks to the situation that will arise if the Government seek to maintain the clauses and can get a majority in the House of Commons to that end. Your Lordships will then have to decide whether we maintain our opposition to them in the face of a majority in the elected House. I have argued in the past, and continue to believe, that this House must recognise the constitutional limitations on our power and must ultimately defer to elected House. But the issues on this occasion are of a different order. The Northern Ireland clauses in this Bill go to the root of our constitution. On this occasion, the power is in your Lordships’ hands, and we may not be used to that. The Government need the internal market provisions in this Bill by 31 December. They cannot, therefore, use the Parliament Acts to get the Bill through. If this House is resolute in rejecting the unacceptable Northern Ireland clauses, the Government will have to agree to remove them if they are to get the Bill passed. ... We can prevent this disaster. Edited October 21, 2020 by snowychap 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HanoiVillan Posted October 21, 2020 Share Posted October 21, 2020 Looks like it's setting up just nicely for the Tories' preferred message of the 'people's will to Brexit being thwarted by the establishment' to become operational again. So frustrating., because there's no good options for the sensible side of the debate. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blandy Posted October 21, 2020 Author Moderator Share Posted October 21, 2020 35 minutes ago, HanoiVillan said: So frustrating., because there's no good options for the sensible side of the debate. How do you mean, @HanoiVillan? Am I misunderstanding - the sensible thing to do (for all parties) is to remove the clause authorising Ministers to break the law, thus pleasing the HoL, the vast majority of the HoC (whatever way they voted), the EU, and allowing the UK to ask for something in return from the EU to ease talks/negotiations, which Johnson and Co. know they need to happen. For all the PR nonsense of the last few days (done to hide the fact that Johnson set a hard deadline of 15 Oct for the talks to have ended, which obviously they haven't - hence the smokescreen, and ploy to pretend he didn't do yet another breach of his own time limits) the tories, all of them bar a handful of deluded, beyond hope of ever re-joining reality, mentalists, know they need a deal. It'll be a garbage one in every regard worse than remaining, but they need it. Covi and Brexit will be a disaster. Either on it's own is a massive hit, but a no deal Brexit and Covi together is just a killer for the UK. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HanoiVillan Posted October 21, 2020 Share Posted October 21, 2020 14 minutes ago, blandy said: How do you mean, @HanoiVillan? What I'm trying to say, maybe not very clearly, is that the Tories know that the HoL will remove the worst provisions from the bill, but that they don't care, because they get to posture about 'unelected establishment busybodies' or whatever ruining the people's Brexit. People who want the government to do quaint things like *abide by the treaty they signed this year* are left with the choice of either allowing the Tories to break the law and constitutional norms, or preventing them from doing so, at the cost of them getting lots of free gripes and posturing in. It's an easy choice, but neither are particularly palatable options. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cyrusr Posted October 21, 2020 VT Supporter Share Posted October 21, 2020 41 minutes ago, blandy said: For all the PR nonsense of the last few days (done to hide the fact that Johnson set a hard deadline of 15 Oct for the talks to have ended, which obviously they haven't - hence the smokescreen, and ploy to pretend he didn't do yet another breach of his own time limits) Totally forgot about this. Though the Tories make so many promises/guarantees/posturing that a lot of things slip by sadly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Follyfoot Posted October 23, 2020 VT Supporter Share Posted October 23, 2020 https://news.sky.com/story/brexit-uk-and-japan-to-sign-163152bn-free-trade-agreement-in-tokyo-12111609 Quote Brexit: UK and Japan sign £15.2bn free trade agreement in Toky Good news? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bickster Posted October 23, 2020 Moderator Share Posted October 23, 2020 Just now, Follyfoot said: Good news? If a solitary peanut is good news for a blue tit Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Follyfoot Posted October 23, 2020 VT Supporter Share Posted October 23, 2020 2 minutes ago, bickster said: If a solitary peanut is good news for a blue tit 1st deal, better than nothing, got to start somewhere Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bickster Posted October 23, 2020 Moderator Share Posted October 23, 2020 Just now, Follyfoot said: 1st deal, better than nothing, got to start somewhere YAY estimated at £1bn a year From the article you posted Quote Government analysis found that a deal with Japan would boost the UK's GDP by around 0.07% over 15 years it's worth repeating... 0.07% 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snowychap Posted October 23, 2020 Share Posted October 23, 2020 12 minutes ago, Follyfoot said: Good news? It's good news in that it would have been bad news if there couldn't have been a deal done there. It's rather running to stand still but it's better to stand still than fall behind. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xann Posted October 23, 2020 Share Posted October 23, 2020 It would have been amazing 40 or 50 years ago. Most things that used to say made in Japan say made in China these days. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Follyfoot Posted October 23, 2020 VT Supporter Share Posted October 23, 2020 1 minute ago, bickster said: YAY estimated at £1bn a year From the article you posted it's worth repeating... 0.07% Like I said, its a start. Lets see what other deals now get done. We have to deal with the fact we are out and the more deals that get done the better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snowychap Posted October 23, 2020 Share Posted October 23, 2020 (edited) 5 minutes ago, bickster said: it's worth repeating... 0.07% Isn't that also '0.07%' versus the position that we'd have had if there hadn't been any deal (and not versus the position in which we find ourselves currently and up until the end of the year)? Edited October 23, 2020 by snowychap excess in 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snowychap Posted October 23, 2020 Share Posted October 23, 2020 3 minutes ago, snowychap said: Isn't that also '0.07%' versus the position that we'd have had if there hadn't been any deal (and not versus the position in which we find ourselves currently and up until the end of the year)? Edit: Actually, it seems that it's pretty much a roll over of the current deal with a few extras. So the 'extras' are a bit of good news. Wahey! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snowychap Posted October 23, 2020 Share Posted October 23, 2020 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
meregreen Posted October 23, 2020 Share Posted October 23, 2020 Negotiating a deal as a market of one, as opposed to a market of 27, will be negotiating from a significantly weaker position. Would not surprise me if the EU’s deal with Japan is superior. Rather pathetic really that we are desperately trying to jump on the coat tails of the Canadians 7 years in the making deal with the E.U. Is this what they meant by the oven ready deal. ie someone else’s deal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bickster Posted October 24, 2020 Moderator Share Posted October 24, 2020 Ah the Trade Envoy for Mongolia is off again in his never ending quest to prove he really knows absolutely nothing. PS: He's so worried about what he tweets, that the only accounts that can reply to him are the accounts he's tagged Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davkaus Posted October 24, 2020 Share Posted October 24, 2020 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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