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The now-enacted will of (some of) the people


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2 hours ago, Awol said:

No it's not bibble, the Vienna Convention on Diplomatic Relations states very clearly the rules on non-interference in another nations internal affairs.  Article 41.1 if you wish to google.

Obama stating an opinion on the UK's EU membership from a platform in Washington is one thing (a), physically coming to the UK and doing it is a serious breach of diplomatic protocol. (b)

Tony already covered the Trump issue and why it's irrelevant, but as for the media ownership "lesson", you confused the rights of a free press with the breaking of established diplomatic protocol and used that to suggest I was feigning anger at the potential interference by Obama. 

I was simply trying to explain the difference, bizarre as that may seem to Chris.

(a) . . . a completely acceptable thing. 

(b) the quoted protocol states 'If a diplomatic agent passes through or is in the territory of a third State . . . They . . . have a duty not to interfere in the internal affairs of that state'. Obviously we disagree about what 'interfering in internal affairs' looks like. If - to give a hypothetical example - Obama were meeting with a group of MP's to persuade them not to rebel on a bill, for example the snooper's charter or something, then that would be meaningfully 'interfering'. But the relevant legislators on the issue of Brexit are the entire voting-eligible public of the UK. A press conference-cum-after dinner speech at Chatham House or wherever will be consumed by 99.9recurring% of British voters in exactly the same way the speech in the Rose Garden would be, ie. on the six o'clock news. It seems to me to make absolutely no difference whether he gives the speech in New Hampshire or Hampshire. 

You're right, I shouldn't have suggested that you were 'feigning' anger. That wasn't fair, and I apologise. Clearly you aren't. However, I am going to continue arguing that I don't believe for one minute that Boris Johnson would be getting righteously indignant on this issue if Hypothetical President actually agreed with him, and certainly nothing will be persuade me otherwise. 

Edited by HanoiVillan
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The German version of the Daily Show takes a satirical* look at Brexit and their Untermensch Island Monkey neighbours. 

 

 

*In that early 1930's genre of Teutonic humour. 

 

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16 minutes ago, chrisp65 said:

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Have you found a hard drive full of Thatcher images or something :)

This was during the common market referendum for trade (not about a United States of Europe so not really the same thing )

the irony being though , that Labour were by and large opposed to the idea and the party was split over it and I think the vote only carried due to opposition support ?

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Ed Miliband coming out in favour of stay and due to speak to thebLabour faithful ...don't know about the rest of you but  If he doesn't bring his pledge stone then I'm not taking him seriously 

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I think this is an interesting perspective from Vladimir Bukovsky, a dissident who opposed the old USSR regime. While not an exact mirror the parallels are striking - and disturbing:

 

 

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5 hours ago, Awol said:

I think this is an interesting perspective from Vladimir Bukovsky, a dissident who opposed the old USSR regime. While not an exact mirror the parallels are striking - and disturbing:

No it's neither interesting, nor does it have "striking parallels". To my eyes it's a somewhat tortured and tenuous linking of two completely different things, using one or two common factors to try to claim much closer likeness than can be credibly supported.

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2 hours ago, CarewsEyebrowDesigner said:

Got my first letter from the LeaveEU campaign today!

The next few months are going to be fun.

I think the terrorist attacks in Europe will be the nail in the coffin for Stay.  I don't really care either way but good luck to people trying to keep us in Europe whilst the attacks are fresh in peoples memory.  I would even say its a forgone conclusion now that the UK will leave IMO.  I am pretty sure Cameron wont be shouting how great Europe is for a few days anyway.  He has not got days to waste though if he wants to win.

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Well I'm voting stay.  I don't see what an attack in Brussels has to do with me.  That attack would have happened had the UK been in or out of the EU anyway.

If it was someone bombing London you'd have a point.

I also think the vote will be much closer than you think.

Edited by lapal_fan
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45 minutes ago, blandy said:

No it's neither interesting, nor does it have "striking parallels". To my eyes it's a somewhat tortured and tenuous linking of two completely different things, using one or two common factors to try to claim much closer likeness than can be credibly supported.

Yeah I suppose he's just a dissident and has no real authority.

Perhaps a more interesting remark was made by the man who actually ended the Cold War and dismantled Soviet Communism, Mikhail Gorbachev:

“The most puzzling development in politics during the last decade is the apparent determination of Western European leaders to re-create the Soviet Union in Western Europe.”

Poacher turned Gamekeeper, or another one talking out of his hat when drawing parallels between the two systems?  

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If it's the nail in the coffin then I think that just emphasises how much bollocks the go campaign is based on

Firstly we need to sort ourselves out before we worry about terrorists travelling here

Secondly in or out of the EU what are you expecting to change at passport control? Because apart from them having to join a different queue the answer in my head is nothing

Thirdly us being part of the EU makes us no more or less of a target, we still ally ourselves with the states and more than likely will ally ourselves with a host of EU countries on numerous decisions 

Today unfortunately will but really shouldn't have any impact 

 

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