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Should I stay or should I go now - U.K. in/out of the EU (contd.)

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3 minutes ago, HanoiVillan said:

Norman Smith topped it somehow:

 

Indeed, more utter nonsense

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8 minutes ago, bickster said:

You are of coarse assuming the defecting MPs will get re-elected to parliament in any GE

Yes, good point......but we should not have to wait for a GE. There should be a By Election, but they are not brave enough to take it on because they know they will lose their job and all the perks that come with it.

The vast majority of people vote for a party and with it party policies. Yes they may vote for the person but in the main it's the party and the policies.

If i was in a constituency where my MP changed parties mid stream i would not be happy, regardless of how i voted in the referendum.

If anyone feels the same there is a petition in place at the moment. Click here.

 

 

 

 

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18 minutes ago, HanoiVillan said:

 

I remember when the Kuennsberg being a bit partial to the Tories thing was dismissed.

Now it turns out basically the entire BBC news team is.

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14 minutes ago, HanoiVillan said:

Norman Smith topped it somehow:

 

Surely contempt is the default position for anyone with any sense when it comes to Johnson?

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Just now, imavillan said:

There should be a By Election

No, there really shouldn't. You vote for a person not a party. I really don't know how many times that has the be said.

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Just now, snowychap said:

No, there should not be.

yes there should

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Just now, bickster said:

No, there really shouldn't. You vote for a person not a party. I really don't know how many times that has the be said.

but people dont.....in reality they vote for policies and the party

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Just now, imavillan said:

but people dont.....in reality they vote for policies and the party

If people don't, that's their problem, see above about people taking responsibility for their decisions and their consequences

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1 minute ago, snowychap said:

No, there shouldn't. It's an utter nonsense.

yes there should be.....it's utter nonsense 

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1 minute ago, bickster said:

If people don't, that's their problem, see above about people taking responsibility for their decisions and their consequences

rubbish......once again the vast majority of people vote for the party and the policies.

If i vote Labour and someone jumps ship to Lib Dems thats not what i voted for.

If i wanted a Lib Dem in i would have voted for them.

 

 

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Just now, imavillan said:

yes there should be.....it's utter nonsense 

On top of the point made above by Bickster, there are a myriad of practical difficulties with this crap - not least the huge increase in leverage this gives to the party leadership and party whips. Whilst those who shout for it claim that they're trying to make MPs more accountable to their constituents what they are actually doing is making them more accountable to those who voted for them (at most) and probably just more to the party membership (at least for the two major parties). MPs are not just there to represent those who voted for them but to represent all of their constituents (and the wider national interest) and that includes those who don't vote for them and, obviously, those unable to vote.

Then we also have the difficulties with people having the whip removed, &c.

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4 minutes ago, imavillan said:

rubbish......once again the vast majority of people vote for the party and the policies.

If i vote Labour and someone jumps ship to Lib Dems thats not what i voted for.

If i wanted a Lib Dem in i would have voted for them.

The vast majority of people don't know what they're doing when they put a cross in the box.

They are voting for a representative for their constituency not a party sheep (the practical nature of politics and politicians may mean that they get the latter but that's a different story).

MPs are there to do more than merely press ahead with party policy and manifesto aspirations (as Gordo told us they aren't commitments) blind to the considerations of circumstances and how they might change over the course of a Parliament.

In another direction, if you vote Labour in GE on year 1 for policies x, y & z then the Labour party policy forum decides to drop policies x & y and the PLP and leadership enforce this via the whips and removal of the whip from those who vote against then should that person be subject to a by-election? Or if they walk from the party because it has changed its position from its stated manifesto aspirations?

This whole 'by-election' call is a combination of a simplistic reading of politics as something played out on a static battlefield and a lack of understanding of what MPs are supposed to be in a representative democracy.

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Just saw the Government's ad for Brexit on Sky.

**** off

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I'd be shocked if as many as 10% voted for the candidate rather than the party and even more shocked if 20% remembered the candidates name 10 minutes after leaving the booth.

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21 minutes ago, Wainy316 said:

I'd be shocked if as many as 10% voted for the candidate rather than the party and even more shocked if 20% remembered the candidates name 10 minutes after leaving the booth.

I'd be similarly shocked.

Does our collective shock matter?

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36 minutes ago, snowychap said:

I'd be similarly shocked.

Does our collective shock matter?

Only if it causes another earthquake in Dudley.

Just because (nearly) everyone votes for a party rather than a person, doesn’t mean that MPs should be recalled/by-election. It does however give evidence that some form of PR would better though. 

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5 hours ago, snowychap said:

Thanks for this. As a word of advise, if you want to dip in/out, I would suggest sticking to first and last half hour of each speech; that’s where they will summarise rather than go into the detail.

You’ve also got the written submissions of the appeallants/parliament here. The respondent/government responses should appear here too...

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