bickster Posted September 16, 2019 Moderator Share Posted September 16, 2019 3 minutes ago, HanoiVillan said: Norman Smith topped it somehow: Indeed, more utter nonsense Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HanoiVillan Posted September 16, 2019 Share Posted September 16, 2019 Just remember, nobody tells them what to say. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
imavillan Posted September 16, 2019 Share Posted September 16, 2019 8 minutes ago, bickster said: You are of coarse assuming the defecting MPs will get re-elected to parliament in any GE Yes, good point......but we should not have to wait for a GE. There should be a By Election, but they are not brave enough to take it on because they know they will lose their job and all the perks that come with it. The vast majority of people vote for a party and with it party policies. Yes they may vote for the person but in the main it's the party and the policies. If i was in a constituency where my MP changed parties mid stream i would not be happy, regardless of how i voted in the referendum. If anyone feels the same there is a petition in place at the moment. Click here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chindie Posted September 16, 2019 VT Supporter Share Posted September 16, 2019 18 minutes ago, HanoiVillan said: I remember when the Kuennsberg being a bit partial to the Tories thing was dismissed. Now it turns out basically the entire BBC news team is. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ml1dch Posted September 16, 2019 Share Posted September 16, 2019 14 minutes ago, HanoiVillan said: Norman Smith topped it somehow: Surely contempt is the default position for anyone with any sense when it comes to Johnson? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snowychap Posted September 16, 2019 Share Posted September 16, 2019 Just now, imavillan said: There should be a By Election No, there should not be. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
imavillan Posted September 16, 2019 Share Posted September 16, 2019 Just now, snowychap said: No, there should not be. yes there should Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bickster Posted September 16, 2019 Moderator Share Posted September 16, 2019 Just now, imavillan said: There should be a By Election No, there really shouldn't. You vote for a person not a party. I really don't know how many times that has the be said. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
imavillan Posted September 16, 2019 Share Posted September 16, 2019 Just now, bickster said: No, there really shouldn't. You vote for a person not a party. I really don't know how many times that has the be said. but people dont.....in reality they vote for policies and the party Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snowychap Posted September 16, 2019 Share Posted September 16, 2019 Just now, imavillan said: yes there should No, there shouldn't. It's an utter nonsense. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bickster Posted September 16, 2019 Moderator Share Posted September 16, 2019 Just now, imavillan said: but people dont.....in reality they vote for policies and the party If people don't, that's their problem, see above about people taking responsibility for their decisions and their consequences 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
imavillan Posted September 16, 2019 Share Posted September 16, 2019 1 minute ago, snowychap said: No, there shouldn't. It's an utter nonsense. yes there should be.....it's utter nonsense Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
imavillan Posted September 16, 2019 Share Posted September 16, 2019 1 minute ago, bickster said: If people don't, that's their problem, see above about people taking responsibility for their decisions and their consequences rubbish......once again the vast majority of people vote for the party and the policies. If i vote Labour and someone jumps ship to Lib Dems thats not what i voted for. If i wanted a Lib Dem in i would have voted for them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snowychap Posted September 16, 2019 Share Posted September 16, 2019 Just now, imavillan said: yes there should be.....it's utter nonsense On top of the point made above by Bickster, there are a myriad of practical difficulties with this crap - not least the huge increase in leverage this gives to the party leadership and party whips. Whilst those who shout for it claim that they're trying to make MPs more accountable to their constituents what they are actually doing is making them more accountable to those who voted for them (at most) and probably just more to the party membership (at least for the two major parties). MPs are not just there to represent those who voted for them but to represent all of their constituents (and the wider national interest) and that includes those who don't vote for them and, obviously, those unable to vote. Then we also have the difficulties with people having the whip removed, &c. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snowychap Posted September 16, 2019 Share Posted September 16, 2019 4 minutes ago, imavillan said: rubbish......once again the vast majority of people vote for the party and the policies. If i vote Labour and someone jumps ship to Lib Dems thats not what i voted for. If i wanted a Lib Dem in i would have voted for them. The vast majority of people don't know what they're doing when they put a cross in the box. They are voting for a representative for their constituency not a party sheep (the practical nature of politics and politicians may mean that they get the latter but that's a different story). MPs are there to do more than merely press ahead with party policy and manifesto aspirations (as Gordo told us they aren't commitments) blind to the considerations of circumstances and how they might change over the course of a Parliament. In another direction, if you vote Labour in GE on year 1 for policies x, y & z then the Labour party policy forum decides to drop policies x & y and the PLP and leadership enforce this via the whips and removal of the whip from those who vote against then should that person be subject to a by-election? Or if they walk from the party because it has changed its position from its stated manifesto aspirations? This whole 'by-election' call is a combination of a simplistic reading of politics as something played out on a static battlefield and a lack of understanding of what MPs are supposed to be in a representative democracy. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StefanAVFC Posted September 16, 2019 Share Posted September 16, 2019 Just saw the Government's ad for Brexit on Sky. **** off 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wainy316 Posted September 16, 2019 Share Posted September 16, 2019 I'd be shocked if as many as 10% voted for the candidate rather than the party and even more shocked if 20% remembered the candidates name 10 minutes after leaving the booth. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snowychap Posted September 16, 2019 Share Posted September 16, 2019 21 minutes ago, Wainy316 said: I'd be shocked if as many as 10% voted for the candidate rather than the party and even more shocked if 20% remembered the candidates name 10 minutes after leaving the booth. I'd be similarly shocked. Does our collective shock matter? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cyrusr Posted September 16, 2019 VT Supporter Share Posted September 16, 2019 36 minutes ago, snowychap said: I'd be similarly shocked. Does our collective shock matter? Only if it causes another earthquake in Dudley. Just because (nearly) everyone votes for a party rather than a person, doesn’t mean that MPs should be recalled/by-election. It does however give evidence that some form of PR would better though. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cyrusr Posted September 16, 2019 VT Supporter Share Posted September 16, 2019 5 hours ago, snowychap said: Supreme Court website Thanks for this. As a word of advise, if you want to dip in/out, I would suggest sticking to first and last half hour of each speech; that’s where they will summarise rather than go into the detail. You’ve also got the written submissions of the appeallants/parliament here. The respondent/government responses should appear here too... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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