Jump to content
blandy

Should I stay or should I go now - U.K. in/out of the EU (contd.)

Recommended Posts

45 minutes ago, chrisp65 said:

I’m sure nobody over in that Europe will have spotted this, so please keep it on the quiet.

If Labour’s policy is to negotiate a version of leave, and then either campaign for or against depending on how good a deal it is.... doesn’t that encourage the EU to stubbornly give us the shittest deal possible?

There is, unfortunately, a sort of logic to the leaving regardless side of the argument. Albeit the stupid self imposed deadline is stupid.

I think you'd have to assume everyone acts in good faith in the negotiation. The EU already has put forward an acceptable deal, it's very likely that Labour would end up with something similar (unless they were to go really far in making Brexit as soft as possible) and the main changes would be in the Future Relationship.  It seems unlikely the EU would just pull the ladder up and offer us the side salad of shit or Remain. Either way the relationship goes in the bin and both sides would want to try work on good terms whatever the outcome. Otherwise the thing is doomed as there's no trust or good will.

It is more complicated on what Labour would actually do with the deal they got. They'd either have to push their deal as the best choice, or act as impartially as possible and just put the details out there and say the public decides and the government will be hands off.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
11 minutes ago, meregreen said:

Yes they will

Really? You really think Leavers will vote for a remain party and Remainers will vote for a leave party in a GE based on ‘other’ policies? 

I’m struggling with that idea to be honest. 

If we’d had a 2nd ref before hand then maybe at a push, but if not then there is no chance of that happening imo. 

 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

As funny as this Boris in Luxembourg thing is, it will only divide the country more.

Those who want out will say it was a setup to embarrass us.

Those who want in will say it's another example of Johnson's cowardice and ineptitude.

The country is broken, and will probably never be fixed.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
34 minutes ago, Chindie said:

True... but what if they get in bed with the Tories and end up supporting whatever their policy ends up being?

What would I do if the Lib Dems decided to support the antithesis of their current raison d'être, in direct contradiction of what their current leader, MPs, members and (presumably) voters want to happen?

Dunno. Be quite surprised? 

How would a Labour voter feel if Corbyn decided he wanted to slash corporation tax and ban trades union? It's probably not high up the list of their concerns. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It's very difficult to gauge how public opinion is going, when all we have to go on are polls (which have been spectacularly wrong in recent years) and the echo chamber-cum-bearpit of social media. But, subjective and skewed though it may be, I think I detect a slight shift in the tone and numbers of rabid Brexiters on Facebook. Yes, the "We won, get over it" mob are still there, but not quite in the numbers they were a year or so ago. I think the Yellowhammer revelations, Boris's behaviour, the Tory defections and so on are starting to erode the Leaver numbers. The question is, by how much? 

  • Like 4

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, meregreen said:

If you revoke a single issue referendum with a multi issue General Election, that’s opening a real can of worms, I’m pro EU, a committed remainer, but I want this thing voted on specifically. 

It was GE that delivered said referendum as a result of a manifesto promise in the first place.

Not all Tories wanted a referendum. So up to that point I agree with you

However, anyone that votes LD is now under no illusion that a vote for them is a vote for revoke and in a bizarre cirsumstance where the LD actually win, that would be a democratically derived decision. If people have voted for a revoke party and then get pissy because they revoked, that really is their own fault. It's a democratically derived decision. It's pretty much the same as every No Deal  Brexiteer is willing to accept that more people with cancer will die and die sooner as a result of No Deal, they whether they like it or not have accepted that consequence of their actions. They might claim they didn't want that to happen but they were still prepared for it to happen to get their No Deal Brexit. People need to own the consequences of their decisions.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
14 minutes ago, bickster said:

It was GE that delivered said referendum as a result of a manifesto promise in the first place.

Not all Tories wanted a referendum. So up to that point I agree with you

However, anyone that votes LD is now under no illusion that a vote for them is a vote for revoke and in a bizarre cirsumstance where the LD actually win, that would be a democratically derived decision. If people have voted for a revoke party and then get pissy because they revoked, that really is their own fault. It's a democratically derived decision. It's pretty much the same as every No Deal  Brexiteer is willing to accept that more people with cancer will die and die sooner as a result of No Deal, they whether they like it or not have accepted that consequence of their actions. They might claim they didn't want that to happen but they were still prepared for it to happen to get their No Deal Brexit. People need to own the consequences of their decisions.

Somebody needs to get Angela a copy of that crib sheet, stat 😮

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
10 minutes ago, HanoiVillan said:

Somebody needs to get Angela a copy of that crib sheet, stat

It's like she's gone all Corbyn :mrgreen:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
15 minutes ago, HanoiVillan said:

Somebody needs to get Angela a copy of that crib sheet, stat 😮

 

The Fib Dems are a laughing stock and have no credibility.....

They are supposed to be the middle ground and now have former left wing Labour members and right wing Tories amongst them with the only common ground being stop Brexit.

You have Chukka Umunna who was Labour and then TIG and was touted to be the leader of that party. Then you have Sam Gyimah who put himself up for the Tory leadership. 

I cant see them agreeing on basic policies other than the Brexit situation.

Its a ticking bomb that will end in tears.

 

Edited by imavillan

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

16 minutes ago, bickster said:

It's like she's gone all Corbyn :mrgreen:

When you think about it, it's almost an impressive achievement to not be aware of your new party's single main policy platform, *24 hours after it was announced*. *during the party conference* :crylaugh:

She was a permanent backbencher for a reason.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
22 minutes ago, imavillan said:

The Fib Dems are a laughing stock and have no credibility.....

They are supposed to be the middle ground and now have former left wing Labour members and right wing Tories amongst them with the only common ground being stop Brexit.

You have Chukka Umunna who was Labour and then TIG and was touted to be the leader of that party. Then you have Sam Gyimah who put himself up for the Tory leadership. 

I cant see them agreeing on basic policies other than the Brexit situation.

Its a ticking bomb that will end in tears.

 

You are of coarse assuming the defecting MPs will get re-elected to parliament in any GE

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, HanoiVillan said:

 

That Laura the Tory tweet should be an exhibit in the BBC thread. It's utter f***ing nonsense

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, bickster said:

That Laura the Tory tweet should be an exhibit in the BBC thread. It's utter f***ing nonsense

Norman Smith topped it somehow:

 

  • Confused 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Quote

Timetable of proceedings

17 to 19 September 2019 | 10:30 | Courtroom 1

Timetable

Tuesday 17 September
10:30 to 13:00 Appellant for Miller Lord Pannick QC (2.5 hours)
14:00 to 16:00 Appellant for Advocate General for Scotland from Inner House in Cherry Lord Keen QC (2 hours)
Wednesday 18 September
10:30 to 13:00 Respondent for UK Government in Miller Sir James Eadie QC (2.5 hours)
 
14:00 to 16:00 Respondent for Advocate General for Scotland from Inner House in Cherry Aidan O'Neill QC (2 hours)
Thursday 19 September
10:30 to 11:00 Oral Intervention by Scottish Government in Cherry/Miller The Lord Advocate - James Mure QC (30 minutes)
11:00 to 11:40 Oral Intervention by NI Claimant (McCord) in Cherry/Miller Ronan Lavery QC (40 minutes)
11:40 to 12:10 Oral Intervention by Counsel General for Wales Mike Fordham QC )30 minutes)
12:10 to 12:30 Oral Intervention by Sir John Major Lord Garnier QC (20 minutes)
14:00 to 14:30 Appellants reply for Advocate General for Scotland from Inner House in Cherry Lord Keen QC (30 minutes)
14:30 to 15:00 Appellants reply for Miller Lord Pannick QC (30 minutes)

Supreme Court website

Edited by snowychap
  • Thanks 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

×
×
  • Create New...
Â