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Should I stay or should I go now - U.K. in/out of the EU (contd.)

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13 minutes ago, HanoiVillan said:

That isn't a reasonable characterisation of Labour policy. I realise we're now two or more years into bad jokes about unicorns and fairies, but it's actually important to be clear about this now that there's an election coming up. 

Labour's plan is to negotiate with the EU to get a deal that meets their six tests, probably through changes to the Future Relationship, and then put that deal to a confirmatory referendum versus Remain. That's the policy. You're free to argue with it or criticise it or whatever else, but they certainly don't support 'all of the above'. 

Yes, I was being facetious. 

They aren’t going to get a deal that meets the six tests and passes through parliament though are they and they definitely aren’t going to get a majority in a GE. They are utterly hopeless. 

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I actually think campaigning for outright revoke is a sensible move for the LibDems, it could be that it gains them quite a lot of votes in the short term

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2 minutes ago, bickster said:

I actually think campaigning for outright revoke is a sensible move for the LibDems, it could be that it gains them quite a lot of votes in the short term

Agreed.

The problem only comes when they can't follow on that promise. Which in about 99% of cases, they can't. So they'll get an election long boost, maybe a chance in power for 5 minutes, and then back to the post Clegg demolition.

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2 minutes ago, Chindie said:

Agreed.

The problem only comes when they can't follow on that promise. Which in about 99% of cases, they can't. So they'll get an election long boost, maybe a chance in power for 5 minutes, and then back to the post Clegg demolition.

Indeed but my opinion of the libDems is... useful tools, you may interpret the word tool in any way you want and you'd probably be correct

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No.10 trying to spin the press conference no show as Luxembourg looking to embarrass Johnson.

:crylaugh:

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1 minute ago, Chindie said:

No.10 trying to spin the press conference no show as Luxembourg looking to embarrass Johnson.

:crylaugh:

The mind boggles how they are going to manage that. It's already out that a crowd of British Ex=Pats were too noisy for him, the poor lamb

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2 minutes ago, Chindie said:

No.10 trying to spin the press conference no show as Luxembourg looking to embarrass Johnson.

:crylaugh:

What's depressing is the number of people who will swallow it.

"Typical bloody europeans, trying to show us up. This is why we need to leave".

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4 minutes ago, bickster said:

The mind boggles how they are going to manage that. It's already out that a crowd of British Ex=Pats were too noisy for him, the poor lamb

The official line is the UK asked for the conference to be moved to an indoor location because the noise would drown out the Luxembourg PM (snigger), and Luxembourg refused, which makes them look bad.

The reality seems to be that the UK asked to move the conference at the last minute because of the protesters and a combination of there not being a room big enough to host the event with all the invited press, and the podiums already having been set up, meant it was outside only. So Johnson did a runner.

Edited by Chindie
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Here is the massive protest that Johnson ran away from... 200 people tops?

 

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1 hour ago, StefanAVFC said:

But if the LibDems say 'vote for us and we'll revoke', isn't that democratic?

No. No General election is a single issue vote. There would be people who support different things. Brexit is too important to cloud the issue with NHS, public services etc. 

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17 minutes ago, Chindie said:

Agreed.

The problem only comes when they can't follow on that promise. Which in about 99% of cases, they can't. So they'll get an election long boost, maybe a chance in power for 5 minutes, and then back to the post Clegg demolition.

But the promise is in the event of a Lib Dem majority. 

So when I cast my vote for my (excellent) Lib Dem MP, I'm hoping for a Lib Dem majority and that policy to be enacted.

Now, I'm not going to get that (the majority or the policy). But if they end up in a loose Parliamentary arrangement with Labour and the SNP and backing the Labour solution, I'm not going to be crying about betrayal and broken promises because they told me they would be revoking it.

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So Boris NO SURRENDER Johnson, the self described Incredible Hulk of British politics that has promised to give Brexit the OOMPH! that it needed, didn’t like the shouty people.

The man that thinks Corbyn is frit and chicken?

What an absolute shower of shit politics has become that so many people are confident he’s the man for the job.

What an absolute international laughing stock we are making of ourselves.

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2 minutes ago, meregreen said:

No. No General election is a single issue vote. There would be people who support different things. Brexit is too important to cloud the issue with NHS, public services etc. 

And Brexit is in no way linked to NHS, public services, etc?

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3 minutes ago, meregreen said:

No. No General election is a single issue vote. There would be people who support different things. Brexit is too important to cloud the issue with NHS, public services etc. 

This isn’t a ‘normal’ GE. 

If a 2nd referendum doesn’t come before a GE, then pretty much the whole thing will revolve around Brexit and nothing else. 

All parties will try and talk about other stuff, but leavers aren’t going to vote for a remain party, even if they like the other policies and vice versa. 

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40 minutes ago, chrisp65 said:

I’m sure nobody over in that Europe will have spotted this, so please keep it on the quiet.

If Labour’s policy is to negotiate a version of leave, and then either campaign for or against depending on how good a deal it is.... doesn’t that encourage the EU to stubbornly give us the shittest deal possible?

There is, unfortunately, a sort of logic to the leaving regardless side of the argument. Albeit the stupid self imposed deadline is stupid.

Quite.

Happily I'm sure they'll have a new variation of a completely mad and non-credible policy to then fail to promote or explain very shortly.

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4 minutes ago, ml1dch said:

But the promise is in the event of a Lib Dem majority. 

So when I cast my vote for my (excellent) Lib Dem MP, I'm hoping for a Lib Dem majority and that policy to be enacted.

Now, I'm not going to get that (the majority or the policy). But if they end up in a loose Parliamentary arrangement with Labour and the SNP and backing the Labour solution, I'm not going to be crying about betrayal and broken promises because they told me they would be revoking it.

True... but what if they get in bed with the Tories and end up supporting whatever their policy ends up being?

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1 minute ago, choffer said:

And Brexit is in no way linked to NHS, public services, etc?

You miss my point. It’s possible that people who vote for the Lib Dem’s in an election actually want out of the EU and people who want in still vote Tory because they prefer their policies on other issues. Brexit needs to be voted on in isolation for it to be democratically acceptable to both sides. Farage and his mob would simply say the General Election is about multiple issues, and they’d be right.

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4 minutes ago, wazzap24 said:

This isn’t a ‘normal’ GE. 

If a 2nd referendum doesn’t come before a GE, then pretty much the whole thing will revolve around Brexit and nothing else. 

All parties will try and talk about other stuff, but leavers aren’t going to vote for a remain party, even if they like the other policies and vice versa. 

Yes they will

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35 minutes ago, wazzap24 said:

Yes, I was being facetious. 

They aren’t going to get a deal that meets the six tests and passes through parliament though are they and they definitely aren’t going to get a majority in a GE. They are utterly hopeless. 

However low you rate their chances, they're not going to write 'we decided not to fill this bit in cos we've got no chance have we' under 'brexit policy' in their manifesto. Weirdly, you don't seem to have a problem considering the liberals' policy on its own terms, despite them being about a billion times less likely to form a majority than Labour are. 

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If you revoke a single issue referendum with a multi issue General Election, that’s opening a real can of worms, I’m pro EU, a committed remainer, but I want this thing voted on specifically. 

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