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Should I stay or should I go now - U.K. in/out of the EU (contd.)

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2 minutes ago, bannedfromHandV said:

They are all as inept as eachother......at least the libdems will be inept but well intentioned......

They will also never get a majority, so the promise to simply cancel brexit will be pretty empty like many of their previous promises. I am not saying Tories/Labour are any better, but given they are meant to be the alternative choice, it just doesn't inspire as much as it should do. 

1 minute ago, mjmooney said:

I have very similar feelings. A lot depends now on how Corbyn and Labour respond. Overturning Brexit is my priority, which inevitably means swallowing some pride and backing people I have little taste for (in any party). Right now I'd welcome an electoral pact and a broad left coalition government (Lab/LibDem/Plaid/SNP/Green) to see off the Tory/Farage lot. It would come loaded with problems, but I'd live with that. 

Quite right. We are heading to another hung parliament and it'll either be a left or right coalition, depending on the numbers. Whilst the vast majority of the left are refusing to work with Corbyn, I suspect they won't have any choice. 

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6 minutes ago, cyrusr said:

They will also never get a majority, so the promise to simply cancel brexit will be pretty empty like many of their previous promises. I am not saying Tories/Labour are any better, but given they are meant to be the alternative choice, it just doesn't inspire as much as it should do. 

Quite right. We are heading to another hung parliament and it'll either be a left or right coalition, depending on the numbers. Whilst the vast majority of the left are refusing to work with Corbyn, I suspect they won't have any choice. 

Depending on how you look at it, Corbyn is either admirably principled or suicidally pigheaded. He has a chance to shut up the propagandists and slanderers, and become a real statesman as a PM heading a coalition. Sadly, I don't think he will. 

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16 minutes ago, mjmooney said:

Depending on how you look at it, Corbyn is either admirably principled or suicidally pigheaded. He has a chance to shut up the propagandists and slanderers, and become a real statesman as a PM heading a coalition. Sadly, I don't think he will. 

I suspect he will not be able to either. Sadly though, you look at the other leaders, and there is a real gulf in someone who actually people can get behind. That is something that the”left” is really struggling from. 

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9 minutes ago, cyrusr said:

I suspect he will not be able to either. Sadly though, you look at the other leaders, and there is a real gulf in someone who actually people can get behind. That is something that the”left” is really struggling from. 

That's because we don't seek news any more (average person), we're spoonfed it and the people holding the spoons really really want Brexit to go ahead.

There are good people out there but the media will do everything possible to keep their profile down as it doesn't fit their narratives. Rory Stewart and Ian Blackford have both impressed me a lot in the past 12 months or so, and they're from opposing parties.

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10 minutes ago, Chindie said:

The Lib Dems can't be trusted.

My constituency is a swing seat CON/LD, so I've got to trust them.

I've signed up as a supporter, not a paid member, so I can get some insight into what I'll be voting for.

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1 minute ago, NurembergVillan said:

My constituency is a swing seat CON/LD, so I've got to trust them.

I've signed up as a supporter, not a paid member, so I can get some insight into what I'll be voting for.

In that case it's the lesser of 2 evils, but unfortunately I'm not sure you can bank on much. The Lib Dems will jump in bed with the Tories faster than you can say 'power!'. Their current backing Revoke is spin to draw in the Remainer demographic that doesn't feel at home anywhere, just like Clegg pulled in student votes in 2010. Although I spoilt my ballot like usual at that election, I was a student, and I saw what happened to those pledges the moment they got to be Tory enablers. And that got followed by things like the Bedroom tax...but they did get the plastic bag charge, so thats good.

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2 hours ago, bannedfromHandV said:

Well, the Lib Dems have firmly secured my vote that's for sure.

The Lib Dem’s have about as much chance of winning an election as the Monster Raving Loony Party. Only Labour will stop Boris and his entitled Brexit mob. Even if you don’t like Corbyn, that is the reality.

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40 minutes ago, meregreen said:

The Lib Dem’s have about as much chance of winning an election as the Monster Raving Loony Party. Only Labour will stop Boris and his entitled Brexit mob. Even if you don’t like Corbyn, that is the reality.

But it's extremely unlikely that they will be able to stop him without Parliamentary support from at least one, and probably two other parties. 

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The Lib Dems have repeatedly and categorically ruled out a coalition with Labour. They have done the same for the Conservatives, though less vigorously, and given the simple reality that they won't win a majority or even come close to being the largest party, they will either have to make some sort of arrangement with one of the two main parties, or there will be another election at which they would probably be crushed. My prediction is that Swinson will form a loose confidence and supply arrangement with the Tories, with the bargain being a referendum between Remain and No Deal. This would be very shit. 

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1 hour ago, Chindie said:

The Lib Dems can't be trusted.

erm Tories erm Labour - trust?

If trust is thing you go for from any of the main three parties then they all fail

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1 hour ago, mjmooney said:

Depending on how you look at it, Corbyn is either admirably principled or suicidally pigheaded. He has a chance to shut up the propagandists and slanderers, and become a real statesman as a PM heading a coalition. Sadly, I don't think he will. 

He’s not that principled at all, IMO. Suicidally pig-headed - probably not quite that either, just so dim that he’s always miles behind where he should be, or 40 years behind. 

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8 minutes ago, HanoiVillan said:

The Lib Dems have repeatedly and categorically ruled out a coalition with Labour

They haven't ruled out a Supply and Confidence deal though

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18 minutes ago, bickster said:

They haven't ruled out a Supply and Confidence deal though

From three days ago:

Jo Swinson: Corbyn and Johnson are unfit to lead country

'Jo Swinson has ruled out backing a Jeremy Corbyn-led government after a general election, saying the Liberal Democrats could not even have an informal support arrangement with Labour, despite recent cooperation to block a no-deal Brexit.

[...]

Swinson dismissed the possibility of supporting Corbyn along the lines of the Democratic Unionist party’s confidence-and-supply arrangement with the Conservatives. “I don’t know how I can be clearer – I do not think he is fit to be prime minister. He is trying to take our country into Brexit. He has failed to tackle antisemitism in his own party.”'

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/sep/13/jo-swinson-corbyn-and-johnson-are-unfit-to-lead-country

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18 minutes ago, bickster said:

erm Tories erm Labour - trust?

If trust is thing you go for from any of the main three parties then they all fail

True, but I think those parties in the main do have some guiding, foundational values, even if in the Tories case they're more in line with Saurons' than anything good for humanity in general. The Lib Dems on the other hand are wibbly wobbly kinda little bit right wing but don't talk too loud about it, and everything else is negotiable depending on how likely it is to get them a sniff of power again.

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1 minute ago, Chindie said:

True, but I think those parties in the main do have some guiding, foundational values, even if in the Tories case they're more in line with Saurons' than anything good for humanity in general. The Lib Dems on the other hand are wibbly wobbly kinda little bit right wing but don't talk too loud about it, and everything else is negotiable depending on how likely it is to get them a sniff of power again.

Agree on the LibDems but I wouldn't trust Labour to tie their shoelaces without having 16 discussions amongst themselves over which knot to tie, never coming to an agreement and during the time they've spend arguing it's time to go to bed again.

I wouldn't trust a Tory either, you only have to see how many of them currently support this shitshow but know in reality they campaigned for remain and deep down know they are supporting the wrong side

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Lib Dems would work with Labour, just not Corbyn led Labour.

I don't really blame them.

Edited by StefanAVFC
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11 minutes ago, HanoiVillan said:

From three days ago:

Jo Swinson: Corbyn and Johnson are unfit to lead country

'Jo Swinson has ruled out backing a Jeremy Corbyn-led government after a general election, saying the Liberal Democrats could not even have an informal support arrangement with Labour, despite recent cooperation to block a no-deal Brexit.

[...]

Swinson dismissed the possibility of supporting Corbyn along the lines of the Democratic Unionist party’s confidence-and-supply arrangement with the Conservatives. “I don’t know how I can be clearer – I do not think he is fit to be prime minister. He is trying to take our country into Brexit. He has failed to tackle antisemitism in his own party.”'

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/sep/13/jo-swinson-corbyn-and-johnson-are-unfit-to-lead-country

Hadn't seen that, thanks.

it is however a load of crap, when push comes to shove after any election, if the libDems have the remotest sniff of power it will be Labour they have to support. They seriously cannot consider the Tories given the disparity between the two parties policies on you know, that major thing that overshadows everything.

the LibDems also said something similar before they went into coalition with the Tories iirc (about the Tories). With the LibDems theres a whole heap of difference between what they say now and what they'll do come any results following the next election

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38 minutes ago, HanoiVillan said:

The Lib Dems have repeatedly and categorically ruled out a coalition with Labour. They have done the same for the Conservatives, though less vigorously, and given the simple reality that they won't win a majority or even come close to being the largest party, they will either have to make some sort of arrangement with one of the two main parties, or there will be another election at which they would probably be crushed. My prediction is that Swinson will form a loose confidence and supply arrangement with the Tories, with the bargain being a referendum between Remain and No Deal. This would be very shit. 

I think there'd be a great chance of remain winning that. As such I don't think your scenario would be that 'shit'. If the price to pay for remain is another Tory government I think I could just about stomach that.

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3 minutes ago, StefanAVFC said:

Lib Dems would work with Labour, just not Corbyn led Labour.

I don't really blame them.

One would like to imagine that if the LibDems are needed to support Labour then Corbyn would resign as he's have already lost an unprecidented two elections in a row.

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