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Should I stay or should I go now - U.K. in/out of the EU (contd.)

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24 minutes ago, avfcDJ said:

They will take civil war and death as long as they get to say they have won. 

I think that applies to both sides at this moment in time to be fair ?

I think Benn,  Soubry, Thornbury and Grieve would sacrifice almost anything in the UK to reverse the referendum result.  If the UK had to burn for a week so too speak they wouldn't give a **** as long as they could win and reverse it the referendum.  That's what they really want.  "I won & you lost" is now the level of the politics in the UK I fear.  

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4 minutes ago, bickster said:

Its ok, say nothing and just let them die needlessly

I'm rather glad we were in the EU when the missus had breast cancer.

I'm not talking about that. And I am sorry about your missus, I hope she is ok.

I am talking about accusing anyone of racism or wishing other people to die. They are two of some of the worst things you can accuse people of, and it's thrown around left right and centre like it's a joke.

There is absolutely no difference between 'I want out of EU because I don't like Polish people' and 'Anyone who votes out is racist'. 

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8 minutes ago, bickster said:

Its ok, say nothing and just let them die needlessly

I'm rather glad we were in the EU when the missus had breast cancer.

Considering Leave voters/the right moan about PC culture and snowflakes, they can't take anything back can they?

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2 minutes ago, Mic09 said:

And I am sorry about your missus, I hope she is ok.

Thanks. Over ten years ago now, she's still nagging me daily. Thankfully she had the treatment with radioactive medicine produced for the UK solely in the EU and is part of the EURATOM agreement

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55 minutes ago, bickster said:

Bexiteers want cancer patients to die

Well that's not going to happen is it ?

350,000,000 a week mate !!!,  Cancer will see that and F*** off back to the EU.  All that money,  Cancer can't beat that kind of investment in a free for all health care system and it knows it.

The NHS will become an enviable "Cancer Firewall" so awash with money it will drown.  So in a way the Brexitears will cure *it.  Hooray.

*it might not go like that.

 

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8 minutes ago, Amsterdam_Neil_D said:

I think Benn,  Soubry, Thornbury and Grieve would sacrifice almost anything in the UK to reverse the referendum result.  If the UK had to burn for a week so too speak they wouldn't give a **** as long as they could win and reverse it the referendum.  That's what they really want.  "I won & you lost" is now the level of the politics in the UK I fear.  

Nah.

I think they see Brexit as a real damage to the country.

I wouldn't say Dominic Grieve would ever have the mentality of 'i won, you lost'. As much as he is a Tory *spits*, he's clearly principled and does what he thinks is right. It's totally different to a JRM/Baker/Banks who want Brexit to advance their own agenda.

It's just another false equivalence IMO.

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10 minutes ago, StefanAVFC said:

False equivalence 

All racists voted leave is not the same statement as 'all leave voters are racist'.

I wasn't talking about that either.

I said that I read someone claim that voting leave was a racist vote and driven by racist motivation. In fact my exact quote was 'I have read someone say that all people who voted leave are racist.'

Any absolute statements such as 'brexiteers want cancer patients to die' or 'gypsies are thieves' or 'polish people steal british jobs' or 'people who want out of EU are racists' is absolutely ridiculous.

Surely, even remain posters on here have to agree with this? Or have we gone so far down the rabbit hole we can't admit that absolute generalisations are really unhealthy for the debate?

Edited by Mic09

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18 minutes ago, bickster said:

Its ok, say nothing and just let them die needlessly

I'm rather glad we were in the EU when the missus had breast cancer.

Same here, same reason. 

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Just now, Mic09 said:

I said that I read someone claim that voting leave was a racist vote and driven by racist motivation.

It's pretty commonly accepted that a lot of the Leave vote was driven by 'concerns about immigration'. You dig a little deeper into that and it's (often well-intentioned) xenophobia.

1 minute ago, Mic09 said:

Surely, even remain posters on here have to agree with this? Or have we gone so far down the rabbit hole we can't admit that absolute generalisations are really unhealthy for the debate?

Remain posters? :D

I agree that generalisations based on untruths are unhelpful.

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2 minutes ago, StefanAVFC said:

It's pretty commonly accepted that a lot of the Leave vote was driven by 'concerns about immigration'. You dig a little deeper into that and it's (often well-intentioned) xenophobia.

Remain posters? :D

I agree that generalisations based on untruths are unhelpful.

Remain/pro EU posters ;) 

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1 minute ago, Mic09 said:

Remain/pro EU posters ;) 

I'm not particularly pro-EU. You made a generalisation ;) 

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4 minutes ago, StefanAVFC said:

I'm not particularly pro-EU. You made a generalisation ;) 

I didn't say you were pro-EU - you made an assumption I called you that ;)

*I will accept an apology haha 😂

Edited by Mic09

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41 minutes ago, Mic09 said:

...wishing other people to die...

I don't think it's an active wish for others to die, more like an acceptance that if some die as collateral damage, then that's a price worth (other people) paying.

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6 minutes ago, bickster said:

hahahahahaha

 

Who fights by the sword shall die by the sword haha :)

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4 minutes ago, peterms said:

I don't think it's an active wish for others to die, more like an acceptance that if some die as collateral damage, then that's a price worth (other people) paying.

I get that, but that's like saying 'it's not like those people who want to get rid of polish are racist, it's just that they see them as damaging to British economy'. 

I just can't see how these can be justified. 

I just think we need to be very careful with our language because absolute statements, especially ones that aim to harm others are pretty low. And those are the statements that both ends of the extreme spectrum go on to repeat. 

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1 hour ago, mjmooney said:

Radioactive isotopes (used for radiotherapy for cancer patients and in some tests). Currently all sourced from Euratom, we do not/cannot make this in UK. Some of the longer half life isotopes are being stockpiled but unclear about shorter half life isotopes.

a little OT but that kinda reminded me  ,  technetium-99m is the most commonly used isotope (thanks goolge)  , I read an article a couple of years ago that the Canadians had found a way to create its own supply  and that the UK were also in on the trial process    , forgive me but chemistry isn't something i know anything about  but it was essentially firing high energy protons at some other isotype  to create technetium-99m  (? , might be the wrong terminology )

the stuff we get from Euratom with a short  shelf life , the theory was that by producing it in the Uk it can reach patients even quicker and be more effective  ... they talked about first UK treatments with this drug being in 2019   , if i knew what the process was called i'd probably be able to google it and find out if it is actually happening  ... that it hasn't been used in any counter argument yet probably suggests it hasn't happened yet 

 

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24 minutes ago, Mic09 said:

I get that, but that's like saying 'it's not like those people who want to get rid of polish are racist, it's just that they see them as damaging to British economy'. 

But that IS racist (xenophobic) because it's demonstrably not true.

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