WhatAboutTheFinish Posted September 11, 2019 Share Posted September 11, 2019 Not that I'm a great promoter of 'inter-generational guilt' but I would certainly think there is a strong moral argument for the UK to focus its immigration policy on the former colonies. I've yet to hear a convincing argument from the pro-EU'ers as to why an unskilled labourer from Bulgaria should have the right to to bring his family here to improve their lot, but an unskilled worker from Zimbabwe (for example) shouldn't. Is it solely they they believe the former carries greater economic advantages to the latter? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tonyh29 Posted September 11, 2019 Share Posted September 11, 2019 42 minutes ago, bannedfromHandV said: Anyone who isn't Tory or a Tory-sympathiser automatically starts higher up the chain for me. Voting leave was the racist vote, it's still the racist vote, that leavers try and argue it's got nothing to do with racism is perpetually hilarious. They had a guy on LBC last week who said he voted leave cos there's too many brown people in his local supermarket - that, give or take is pretty much the mindset of anyone who voted leave, that 52% of the population think that way is pretty scary. You seem to be quoting me answering a question that wasn't asked all I asked was how is ABT a strong argument when seemingly ridiculing someone elses point of view Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tonyh29 Posted September 11, 2019 Share Posted September 11, 2019 42 minutes ago, mjmooney said: All racists voted leave, yes, Time for my Diane Abbot voted remain line maybe "nearly all" would save us all from some frivolous pedantry Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobzy Posted September 11, 2019 Share Posted September 11, 2019 3 minutes ago, WhatAboutTheFinish said: Not that I'm a great promoter of 'inter-generational guilt' but I would certainly think there is a strong moral argument for the UK to focus its immigration policy on the former colonies. I've yet to hear a convincing argument from the pro-EU'ers as to why an unskilled labourer from Bulgaria should have the right to to bring his family here to improve their lot, but an unskilled worker from Zimbabwe (for example) shouldn't. Is it solely they they believe the former carries greater economic advantages to the latter? I'm pro-freedom of movement, so would see nothing between the two in this example. Wouldn't matter to me if the person is European or otherwise. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snowychap Posted September 11, 2019 Share Posted September 11, 2019 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sam-AVFC Posted September 11, 2019 Share Posted September 11, 2019 1 minute ago, tonyh29 said: Time for my Diane Abbot voted remain line maybe "nearly all" would save us all from some frivolous pedantry What's the most egregiously racist thing that Diane Abbot has done in your opinion.? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WhatAboutTheFinish Posted September 11, 2019 Share Posted September 11, 2019 1 minute ago, bobzy said: I'm pro-freedom of movement, so would see nothing between the two in this example. Wouldn't matter to me if the person is European or otherwise. Do you think that unfettered freedom of movement from anywhere in the globe to the UK is sustainable? 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tonyh29 Posted September 11, 2019 Share Posted September 11, 2019 38 minutes ago, bickster said: It was also noted somewhere that the areas with the highest worries about immigration actually were the most predominantly white British areas of the country. Fear of a black planet I didn't know all immigrants were black Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobzy Posted September 11, 2019 Share Posted September 11, 2019 1 minute ago, WhatAboutTheFinish said: Do you think that unfettered freedom of movement from anywhere in the globe to the UK is sustainable? Very unlikely - there'd be a lot of people who'd want to come here to better themselves (the cheek, eh?) and I very much doubt we have the infrastructure to support this. If we could somehow negotiate trading out all the xenophobic pricks, it may be possible 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snowychap Posted September 11, 2019 Share Posted September 11, 2019 (edited) 8 minutes ago, WhatAboutTheFinish said: Do you think that unfettered freedom of movement from anywhere in the globe to the UK is sustainable? Overnight and with no substantial change to the global economy? No. I don't think anyone would ever suggest such a thing, though. So it's a bit of a straw man. It would be nice to have it as an end goal, though. Edited September 11, 2019 by snowychap 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villa4europe Posted September 11, 2019 Share Posted September 11, 2019 (edited) 11 minutes ago, WhatAboutTheFinish said: Do you think that unfettered freedom of movement from anywhere in the globe to the UK is sustainable? its not, not even close and its not because of the NHS or some hyperbolic bullshit over housing benefits etc its the minimum wage disparity that's the cause, how many people in the UK do you know or hear of doing a stint in the middle east earning a chunk of tax free money and then retiring early? what's the difference between that and a polish plasterer coming to the UK for a couple of years? he'll earn 4x more for doing the same job I don't blame anyone for coming here, to me its common sense but its still unsustainable the EU hasn't done enough to close the disparity (it is shrinking but I think minimum wage in Poland is still a quarter of what it is in the UK) Edited September 11, 2019 by villa4europe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StefanAVFC Posted September 11, 2019 Share Posted September 11, 2019 (edited) 1 minute ago, villa4europe said: the EU hasn't done enough to close the disparity (it is shrinking but I think minimum wage in Poland is still a quarter of what it is in the UK) Poland is a really bad example here from experience They have made huge strides, even in the last 5 years, in the EU. The EU has transformed the country. Edited September 11, 2019 by StefanAVFC 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amsterdam_Neil_D Posted September 11, 2019 Share Posted September 11, 2019 7 minutes ago, WhatAboutTheFinish said: Do you think that unfettered freedom of movement from anywhere in the globe to the UK is sustainable? A bit off topic I suppose and not directly applicable but If we don't get a handle on the climate change thing then the migration of millions of people to more livable lands areas will become inevitable I suspect. Maybe we need to get used to it and think how to implement any future migration for the (Destination) country and their (Migrant) benefit in a better & more productive way. A solution is out there, there always is. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villa4europe Posted September 11, 2019 Share Posted September 11, 2019 3 minutes ago, StefanAVFC said: Poland is a really bad example here from experience They have made huge strides, even in the last 5 years, in the EU. The EU has transformed the country. i think the disparity has been incredibly high, 6 or 7 times as much here, even now minimum wage for Poland according to the ever reliable google still comes up as £385 a month, UK for 40 hours a week is around £1300, "skilled labour" in construction is more its no brainer why people come here I have no interest in living or working in the middle east but they offer 1.5x my current salary, if that was 3x my salary I would be sat there right now Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villa4europe Posted September 11, 2019 Share Posted September 11, 2019 And if you want an extreme version of what I mean look at internal Chinese migration to the factories of the special economic zones I think it's at around 200m people in the last 20 years Money disparity Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post bickster Posted September 11, 2019 Moderator Popular Post Share Posted September 11, 2019 34 minutes ago, tonyh29 said: I didn't know all immigrants were black It's the title of a rather influential album that explains peoples attitudes to people with non-white skin tones, rather than a statement of fact Apologies maybe my musical reference was too subtle Don't worry Big Country fans need not listen (or Mr Mooney for that matter) 7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LondonLax Posted September 11, 2019 Share Posted September 11, 2019 1 hour ago, snowychap said: He isn't. Prorogation is perfectly normal. Prorogation of this length for dubious reasons is not normal. It would be like calling Digby 'normal' because he's a dog. That’s what I also said in my post (though without the Digby bit). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ml1dch Posted September 11, 2019 Share Posted September 11, 2019 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snowychap Posted September 11, 2019 Share Posted September 11, 2019 (edited) 24 minutes ago, LondonLax said: That’s what I also said in my post (though without the Digby bit). It isn't really, I don't think. You elided several arguments in your post such that it didn't make the point I made above. You went from something being normal (with no qualifier) to talking about the particular example being debatable as to its legitimate necessity (due to its length) via an already much used excuse by those in support of this particular exercise of the power for not only the act of prorogation but also for the immediacy (and hence the length). My point is that this prorogation cannot be talked of in similar terms to others (apart from perhaps the Major one?) as those others would come under the umbrella of a normal exercise of the function - that is whether or not, in the end, they all also fall under the same umbrella of lawful. Edited September 11, 2019 by snowychap Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheAuthority Posted September 11, 2019 VT Supporter Share Posted September 11, 2019 38 minutes ago, bickster said: It's the title of a rather influential album that explains peoples attitudes to people with non-white skin tones, rather than a statement of fact Apologies maybe my musical reference was too subtle Don't worry Big Country fans need not listen (or Mr Mooney for that matter) Fight the Power! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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