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The now-enacted will of (some of) the people


blandy

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1 hour ago, StefanAVFC said:

WTF

Apparently it went through, despite being likely to suffer massive defeat, because there was no one to announce the 'no' votes...

ffs

That's saved Johnson, utterly suits his aims and skewers Labour and the remainers. Clearly deliberate.

Johnson has his parachute.

I think he's always wanted to put a tweaked May deal to a vote and win it based on pressuring the EU with the no deal rubbish, and pressuring MPs with the election threat. He messed all that up, both of those by not having a clue about the EU and the proroguing which hacked off the MPs so badly. He needed  get-out, and that's it. Handed to him by Kinnock's amendment and then some shenanigans and quick thinking by (presumably) his advisor(s).

Utterly dodgy, in character and it'll most likely work in the long term, unless the Lords get rid of that amendment, which I wonder if they will - suspect not. Johnson will stay in Gov't, or if there's an election post a "deal" Brexit, then he'll win. Prior to a deal Brexit, he'd get a beasting.

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12 minutes ago, Villan_of_oz said:

To an outsider, Brexit looks just completely mental and ludicrous. 

It’s mental and ludicrous from the inside too.

13 minutes ago, Villan_of_oz said:

I did have a conversation with my wife's second cousin who is visiting from the UK. He declared very early on he was a Brexiter (and a Tommy Robinson fan, I told him I didn't need to know all his dirty secrets) and stated Brexit was needed so that in his words 'we can get our jobs back' ..... I'm not sure who 'we' is meant to be.

Later in the conversation he mentioned he isn't working at the moment, not because one of 'them' has his job but rather he has flaked himself on a disability pension and doesn't need to look for work right now. 

Don’t worry, we’re planning to send people like these to Australia like in the good old days, that’s what Brexit is all about ;) 

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1 minute ago, cyrusr said:

It’s mental and ludicrous from the inside too.

Don’t worry, we’re planning to send people like these to Australia like in the good old days, that’s what Brexit is all about ;) 

So it's basically a small group of idiots wanting to take their bat n ball and not let anyone else play? Oh I understand now...

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5 minutes ago, blandy said:

I think he's always wanted to put a tweaked May deal to a vote

The risk he runs is that the Brexit Party don't see that as good enough, and stand against him.  Having alienated remainers, he can't now afford to have the hardline leavers vote for someone else.

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3 minutes ago, blandy said:

That's saved Johnson, utterly suits his aims and skewers Labour and the remainers. Clearly deliberate.

Johnson has his parachute.

I think he's always wanted to put a tweaked May deal to a vote and win it based on pressuring the EU with the no deal rubbish, and pressuring MPs with the election threat. He messed all that up, both of those by not having a clue about the EU and the proroguing which hacked off the MPs so badly. He needed  get-out, and that's it. Handed to him by Kinnock's amendment and then some shenanigans and quick thinking by (presumably) his advisor(s).

Utterly dodgy, in character and it'll most likely work in the long term, unless the Lords get rid of that amendment, which I wonder if they will - suspect not. Johnson will stay in Gov't, or if there's an election post a "deal" Brexit, then he'll win. Prior to a deal Brexit, he'd get a beasting.

I'm not sure it matters all that much. It just means that if the whole thing goes into law, then during the extension another vote happens. 

So things that realistically happen before then a) an extension and b) an election

Whichever side then wins, I can't imagine them changing the law if that bit doesn't suit them.

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2 minutes ago, Villan_of_oz said:

So it's basically a small group of idiots wanting to take their bat n ball and not let anyone else play? Oh I understand now...

Yeah pretty much. Add to that general frustration and malaise with a ton of promises that everything will be better. People are doubling down though and getting more stubborn. Hence the position we are in now. 

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1 hour ago, tonyh29 said:

But to what purpose .. other than presumably for someone to revoke article 50 ?

I'm guessing to stop the UK from looking more foolish than it already does. 

Brexit was a vote to jump out of an aeroplane at 15 000 feet. The majority agreed it was a good idea..... Until someone realised you don't have a parachute. Now most sensible people want to reconsider their decision, except a few that want to jump out of the plane without a parachute.

That's actually a great analogy *pats myself on the back*

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On the Lords thing, is there anything that people have seen that suggests that the filibustering is going to pose a problem?

I'm seeing nobody overly concerned from what I've been reading but it does seem like a pretty big issue it not getting through the Lords.

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6 minutes ago, chrisp65 said:

We need to jump out and we need to be out by the 31st.

Once we’re out, we can discuss the parachute, but lets get out first.

We’ll get a far better deal on a parachute once we’ve jumped. If we don’t jump, the parachute salesman won’t take us seriously.

Oh you're good, that's hilarious 😂

C'mon a Brexiter, please get involved to make this even funnier.

 

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10 minutes ago, ml1dch said:

On the Lords thing, is there anything that people have seen that suggests that the filibustering is going to pose a problem?

I'm seeing nobody overly concerned from what I've been reading but it does seem like a pretty big issue it not getting through the Lords.

Two conflicting views.

Convention is that the Lords don’t block the Commons, so they shouldn’t this time.

However, convention has somewhat gone down the river. So, they are trying to introduce a time limit / guillotine to the time frame to discuss the Bill. Which itself is unprecedented, to limit talk time in the Lords. 

The attempt to introduce a guillotine to insure convention appears to have upset a few. I think there’s a strong chance it will get talked out.

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1 minute ago, chrisp65 said:

The attempt to introduce a guillotine to insure convention appears to have upset a few. I think there’s a strong chance it will get talked out.

That's where my gut is as well. 

So, given that it screws the whole thing, why is merely a cursory glance at it now and again rather than everyone losing their shit over it?

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28 minutes ago, chrisp65 said:

We need to jump out and we need to be out by the 31st.

Once we’re out, we can discuss the parachute, but lets get out first.

We’ll get a far better deal on a parachute once we’ve jumped. If we don’t jump, the parachute salesman won’t take us seriously.

I'm nicking that. 

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38 minutes ago, chrisp65 said:

We’ll get a far better deal on a parachute once we’ve jumped. If we don’t jump, the parachute salesman won’t take us seriously.

3 years later, wheres the parachute? 

They cheap ones I wanted were all sold out and the only ones left were too expensive.

10 years later.

They've said I can get back in the plane which is great news. It's just triple the airfare it was when I was in it before. Plus now I have to sit in economy. 

Edited by Genie
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Just now, Genie said:

3 years later, wheres the parachute? 

They cheap ones I wanted were all sold out and the only ones left were too expensive.

We can use various as yet unspecified alternative technological solutions.

 

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