The now-enacted will of (some of) the people

[cyrusr]

13 minutes ago, desensitized43 said:

Corbyn wants an election over another referendum. He's done all he can to prevent a second referendum becoming his parties policy.

I'd keep Johnson in place and pass all the legislation you can to make him have to go and extend immediately, shattering his half baked promises and exposing him as a charlatan he is. Only then once he's been forced by law to break every promise would I agree to a referendum.

The problem with that is that the longer Boris is kept in, the more he will blame others for his failings, he becomes the "victim", merely by trying to enact "the will of the people". 

As soon as the legislation is in place, then they will agree to GE.

Edited September 4, 2019 by cyrusr

[desensitized43]

3 minutes ago, cyrusr said:

The problem with that is that the longer Boris is kept in, the more he will blame others for his failings, he becomes the "victim", merely by trying to enact "the will of the people". 

As soon as the legislation is in place, then they will agree to GE.

He could always resign if he's being ordered to do something that's so outrageous...

[villa4europe]

so 5 months after getting a delay and being told we wont get another one so don't waste our time our idea now after weeks of holiday is to ask for more time to discuss it then close parliament for a few weeks?

 

[NurembergVillan]

26 minutes ago, Jareth said:

I think it is exactly that which will push the rest into action - technically Labour, Lib Dems, SNP and Plaid can gather more numbers than Tories + DUP - I would not be at all surprised to see a vote of no confidence in Johnson, a unity government come in (England, Wales and Scotland parties) and a referendum called, well before any election. And there's f*ck all Johnson can do about it.

Ken Clarke well placed to lead that as a compromise right now.

[cyrusr]

2 minutes ago, desensitized43 said:

He could always resign if he's being ordered to do something that's so outrageous...

Its about as likely as Steve Bruce resigning the Newcastle job. 

[Amsterdam_Neil_D]

19 hours ago, WhatAboutTheFinish said:

I thought Incontinent Mendacity was a new Bournemouth to Spain rail link? 

I have been on this route,  not too bad as I had really bad cold at the time,  it all went wrong when we stopped as you can imagine, I was at the front you see and got soaked.

[cyrusr]

3 minutes ago, NurembergVillan said:

Ken Clarke well placed to lead that as a compromise right now.

Very easy suggestion now but for Corbyn insistence to lead it (which he will do).

It will be curious how the Tory rebels move forward now. A lot have indicated that they will not stand any more, but will the others try and fight for "their" Tory party or simply reform into something else? 

[Amsterdam_Neil_D]

3 minutes ago, NurembergVillan said:

referendum called

Question,  what would people bet on the result ? (hypothetically).

Logically,  remain win but if it was that easy we would not still be here 3 years later.

 

[Amsterdam_Neil_D]

2 minutes ago, cyrusr said:

reform into something else? 

No need,  they always win in the end.  It's not like in 10 years the UK will be in the midst of a bedded in Labour government,  I just can't see it ever happening no matter what they do.

80's, 90's, 10's

Complete decades of foolery,  pain and error's and they are still alive,  like a unorganized serial killer with an IQ of 65, active for 40+ years and never ever gets caught.

 

[villa4europe]

22 minutes ago, Amsterdam_Neil_D said:

Question,  what would people bet on the result ? (hypothetically).

Logically,  remain win but if it was that easy we would not still be here 3 years later.

depends on voting turnout, there would need to be an increase in remainers turning up whilst leavers stay at home moaning on facebook about what the point is when they don't listen anyway, you wouldn't bet on it either way and it would be interesting to see if a 2nd referendum came with a % required to overturn the previous result (say 60%) which would make it near impossible

the social media marketing campaign for leave would be worse than it was last time, more bullshit than ever

[bickster]

32 minutes ago, Amsterdam_Neil_D said:

Question,  what would people bet on the result ? (hypothetically).

Logically,  remain win but if it was that easy we would not still be here 3 years later.

 

Question, what is the question? (in the referendum). Right now, there's no meaningful question to ask

[snowychap]

21 hours ago, bickster said:

@snowychapI can't find the post or even remember which topic you said that it would be funny if Labour didn't support the General Election

From Hammond and I can't believe there haven't been conversations

 

 

[Seat68]

Question for the more learned posters.

The tories falling apart, and potentially Brexit slipping. Wont this strengthen Brexit Party in any called general election?  As he can state that he is the only person that can do this (regardless if he can or cant), is this a potential outcome?

 

[snowychap]

1 minute ago, Seat68 said:

Question for the more learned posters.

The tories falling apart, and potentially Brexit slipping. Wont this strengthen Brexit Party in any called general election?  As he can state that he is the only person that can do this (regardless if he can or cant), is this a potential outcome?

 

Maybe but it's not like the Euro elections - they'll have to try and win seats in FPTP conditions from a standing start. I guess they'd win a few but I can't see them doing much more than taking away votes from the Tories.

I may be wrong, though.

Edited September 4, 2019 by snowychap

[NurembergVillan]

Just now, snowychap said:

Maybe but it's not like the Euro elections - they'll have to try and win seats in FPTP conditions from a standing start. I guess they'll win a few but I can't see them doing much more than taking away votes from the Tories.

Yep, if anything it'll split the Leave vote in the same way the left have had multiple voting options in previous elections whereas the right have only had the Tories, unless they were into raving racism.

[snowychap]

3 minutes ago, NurembergVillan said:

raving racism

[desensitized43]

5 minutes ago, Seat68 said:

Question for the more learned posters.

The tories falling apart, and potentially Brexit slipping. Wont this strengthen Brexit Party in any called general election?  As he can state that he is the only person that can do this (regardless if he can or cant), is this a potential outcome?

 

This has been the dream for alot of years.

The right and centre-right has always been concentrated around the Conservatives. The only reason we even had a referendum was because UKIP were peeling off Conservative voters (mainly but not exclusively) and making it extremely difficult to win seats with their vote being split.

The left and centre-left vote has been split for a lot of years now with Labour, LD, Greens, SNP and Plaid. When you add those votes together it shows that the country isn't perhaps as right wing as the make-up of the commons reflects.

[cyrusr]

16 minutes ago, Seat68 said:

Question for the more learned posters.

The tories falling apart, and potentially Brexit slipping. Wont this strengthen Brexit Party in any called general election?  As he can state that he is the only person that can do this (regardless if he can or cant), is this a potential outcome?

 

@Seat68  quite.

NF Party hasn't got the racism stigma attached to them yet so people will vote for them come what may "to leave". Boris is now going to be challenging them for the same votes whilst ignoring all other votes. Whilst he is saying he will "get a deal" and that's what he will campaign on. The problem for him is that his actions speak a lot louder than his words and looks further away from a deal than May ever did. His threat of "no deal" appears to back fired as people have been whipped into a "no deal" frenzy, but they won't vote Tory, they will probably vote NF Party. As @desensitized43 states, this will split the Tory vote and mean that they could lose a lot of seats. They will take votes of Labour as well, don't get me wrong, but they will be pushing for a different voter. Tories/NF Party trying to get the same people and it will cost both of them. 

I cannot see beyond another hung parliament, but we are probably going to see enough seats gained by Labour/Lib Dem/SNP/PC/Greens etc. to form a coalition.  

Edited September 4, 2019 by cyrusr
wrong person quoted

[desensitized43]

90 amendments tabled to the bill in the Lords and reports that some of them are turning up with pillows and duvets.

That's what democracy is about, right? Taking back control right there.

[HanoiVillan]

1 hour ago, desensitized43 said:

Corbyn wants an election over another referendum. He's done all he can to prevent a second referendum becoming his parties policy.

I'd keep Johnson in place and pass all the legislation you can to make him have to go and extend immediately, shattering his half baked promises and exposing him as a charlatan he is. Only then once he's been forced by law to break every promise would I agree to a referendum.

I'm surprised this still needs saying, but you need an election *before* a referendum because there is no majority for passing the legislation needed for a referendum.