cyrusr Posted August 30, 2019 VT Supporter Share Posted August 30, 2019 38 minutes ago, bickster said: Are the British public finally gaining back some common sense? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snowychap Posted August 30, 2019 Share Posted August 30, 2019 (edited) 39 minutes ago, tonyh29 said: No , but as I went onto say , it showed there was precedent for dual nationality As a general point, I'm not sure that it happening in a particular instance, if that instance is deemed to be an exception, necessarily shows 'precedent' for other areas. Even allowing for that, your next sentence appears to go on to acknowledge that the considerations of giving up one citizenship in order to acquire another are relevant, that it wouldn't have been clear cut, and would therefore likely have taken some intervention from lawyers, extra costs, &c.. The whole point being that it's something that may require a lot more information than is available to someone not intricately aware of the various nuances of citizenship laws in a particular country and, quite probably, requires some level of beneficence on behalf of the particular bureaucracy involved in dealing with the application. Edit: Obviously, I'm much less aware of the situation in Hungary than you are and were. Having just had a quick read, it seems that most of the issues surrounding dual citizenship in Hungary concerned the neighbouring states and bilateral agreements between Hungary and them that largely rejected dual citizenship for those who may view themselves as ethnically associated with another country (e.g. Romanians in Moldova, Hungarians in Croatia, &c.). The 2011 change was Hungary looking to simplify naturalisation procedures mainly for ethnic Hungarians in neighbouring or nearby countries, it seems? Edited August 30, 2019 by snowychap Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HanoiVillan Posted August 30, 2019 Share Posted August 30, 2019 5 hours ago, avfcDJ said: 4 hours ago, romavillan said: Just finished reading that! Some people really need to go to jail over this sort of shit, clear links between BoJo, Trump, Farage and a group of paid MAGA trolls. Would be important to know where that money is coming from (*cough* Putin *cough*) and seeing as it's an internationally coordinated butt-fudging of the UK I guess only the complicit UK components could be brought to justice here even if Twitter could/would divulge details of these MAGA accounts. No, this does not provide 'clear links between BoJo . . . and a group of paid MAGA trolls'. If we read the thread carefully, we see that in the tweet shown above, he [Jones] looked at interactions with one (1) Johnson tweet, and found: . . . that 8% of those retweeting had the word 'MAGA' in their profile. Should I say 8% as if it's a lot, or should I say 'fewer than one in ten'? Who knows. He then considers reasons why there might be for these retweets, as follows: So he 'doesn't think much' of the idea that Americans might have a different style to their Twitter profiles, and 'is also not convinced' that America having a larger population or American conservatives being interested in right-wing politics elsewhere is of any importance. However, he doesn't say why he dismisses these ideas, especially since the latter two seem pretty damn convincing to me. Is it really that far-fetched to believe that obsessive online fans of Donald Trump - the sort of people who put MAGA in their profiles - would also look at the Twitter account of Boris Johnson, a man who Trump has repeatedly praised by name and obviously likes? However, instead we go to this: 'If we make another assumption . . . then it probably makes more sense'. This is not solid evidence. His next 'evidence', that lots of these accounts were created in January 2017, hardly 'proves' anything. That's when Trump became President. Why would it be weird that lots of Trump fans signed up to Twitter around that time? There is no actual *evidence* presented that even a single one of these accounts is 'a group of paid MAGA trolls', which is where we came in. Oh well, it's just something that came up on VT I guess, no big deal . . . . . . oh dear. And some people wonder why I think she's a complete fraud. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NurembergVillan Posted August 30, 2019 Moderator Share Posted August 30, 2019 51 minutes ago, bickster said: That adds up to 101%... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dodgyknees Posted August 30, 2019 Share Posted August 30, 2019 21 minutes ago, desensitized43 said: When the queen was up for jumping out of helicopters with James Bond...now she jumps into bed with the far right etonian toffs... Sounds like an insane porno Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bickster Posted August 30, 2019 Moderator Share Posted August 30, 2019 1 minute ago, NurembergVillan said: That adds up to 101%... Rounding I guess, as it's YouGov it probably means Pro-Boris is 33.46% Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
romavillan Posted August 30, 2019 VT Supporter Share Posted August 30, 2019 9 minutes ago, HanoiVillan said: No, this does not provide 'clear links between BoJo . . . and a group of paid MAGA trolls'. If we read the thread carefully, we see that in the tweet shown above, he [Jones] looked at interactions with one (1) Johnson tweet, and found: . . . that 8% of those retweeting had the word 'MAGA' in their profile. Should I say 8% as if it's a lot, or should I say 'fewer than one in ten'? Who knows. He then considers reasons why there might be for these retweets, as follows: So he 'doesn't think much' of the idea that Americans might have a different style to their Twitter profiles, and 'is also not convinced' that America having a larger population or American conservatives being interested in right-wing politics elsewhere is of any importance. However, he doesn't say why he dismisses these ideas, especially since the latter two seem pretty damn convincing to me. Is it really that far-fetched to believe that obsessive online fans of Donald Trump - the sort of people who put MAGA in their profiles - would also look at the Twitter account of Boris Johnson, a man who Trump has repeatedly praised by name and obviously likes? However, instead we go to this: 'If we make another assumption . . . then it probably makes more sense'. This is not solid evidence. His next 'evidence', that lots of these accounts were created in January 2017, hardly 'proves' anything. That's when Trump became President. Why would it be weird that lots of Trump fans signed up to Twitter around that time? There is no actual *evidence* presented that even a single one of these accounts is 'a group of paid MAGA trolls', which is where we came in. Oh well, it's just something that came up on VT I guess, no big deal . . . . . . oh dear. And some people wonder why I think she's a complete fraud. Without data from Twitter as to who these people are and seeing payment for their activities and where that money comes from, it would be hard to make a better case for the MAGA trolls being involved with social media activity backing Boris, Trump and Farage surely? It's nigh on impossible to be certain without impossible to get data, that's why it works and why facebook, twitter etc. need to change their terms and be brought to book for what people do on their platforms. As for a group of thousands of Americans taking a keen interest in European politics... ...the Trump voter demographic generally has no college education too, so you know I personally think you are on thin ice thinking there's thousands of MAGA folk passing a lot of time following European politics. Far more convincing that their on the payroll of someone with an agenda and in bed with Cambridge Analytica. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tonyh29 Posted August 30, 2019 Share Posted August 30, 2019 8 minutes ago, snowychap said: As a general point, I'm not sure that it happening in a particular instance, if that instance is deemed to be an exception, necessarily shows 'precedent' for other areas. Even allowing for that, your next sentence appears to go on to acknowledge that the considerations of giving up one citizenship in order to acquire another are relevant, that it wouldn't have been clear cut, and would therefore likely have taken some intervention from lawyers, extra costs, &c.. The whole point being that it's something that may require a lot more information than is available to someone not intricately aware of the various nuances of citizenship laws in a particular country and, quite probably, requires some level of beneficence on behalf of the particular bureaucracy involved in dealing with the application. you could be right , it was meant more to show that there was a precedent for Dual Citizenship in Hungary prior to 2011 , to counter the suggestion being put forward that it wasn't possible I personally didn't contemplate giving up one citizenship for another , more acquiring an additional one had my chosen path been to have raised a family in Hungary , as you rightly point out, not clear cut, but doable ... of course that then raises the argument about money and the unfairness of it all , but that's one for another time as we are probably getting away from the initial points raised 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HanoiVillan Posted August 30, 2019 Share Posted August 30, 2019 13 minutes ago, romavillan said: Without data from Twitter as to who these people are and seeing payment for their activities and where that money comes from, it would be hard to make a better case for the MAGA trolls being involved with social media activity backing Boris, Trump and Farage surely? It's nigh on impossible to be certain without impossible to get data, that's why it works and why facebook, twitter etc. need to change their terms and be brought to book for what people do on their platforms. A good question would be why you feel the need to start from the conclusion that people are being paid for retweets of Boris' tweets, rather than noticing the evidence first and then working towards the conclusion after amassing the evidence. An even better question would be why Carole Cadwalladr felt the need to write 'Boris Johnson's online support? It turns out it's fake' as a gloss on the reality that a man on Twitter has presented some very weak evidence that in his opinion, a 'significant proportion' of 8% of accounts retweeting a Boris tweet might be bots. As for the amusing video, thanks, it made me smile. However, if you're actually presenting it as evidence why it's impossible that there might be just over 1000 Americans who take enough a minimal interest in politics to retweet something by the British PM, then all I can say is that that's fairly ironic given the topic of the conversation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xela Posted August 30, 2019 Share Posted August 30, 2019 1 hour ago, desensitized43 said: When the queen was up for jumping out of helicopters with James Bond...now she jumps into bed with the far right etonian toffs... Bond went to Eton... 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xela Posted August 30, 2019 Share Posted August 30, 2019 1 hour ago, avfcDJ said: I watched the opening ceremony from the 2012 Olympics, and... I wish that was my country again. Sure, we weren't perfect. But it was open, welcoming, fun. I wish it 1995 and britpop again! Cool Britannia! The country has been steadily going downhill for 20 plus years. Shame, it really is a beautiful country when you can escape the bullshit 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisp65 Posted August 30, 2019 Share Posted August 30, 2019 EU strangely protesting political prisoners in Hong Kong whilst ignoring Catalan prisoners in Spain. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Enda Posted August 30, 2019 Share Posted August 30, 2019 6 minutes ago, chrisp65 said: EU strangely protesting political prisoners in Hong Kong whilst ignoring Catalan prisoners in Spain. Hate this nonsense. Guy Verhofstadt is not the EU. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisp65 Posted August 30, 2019 Share Posted August 30, 2019 5 minutes ago, Enda said: Hate this nonsense. Guy Verhofstadt is not the EU. He’s an MEP that’s got the role of EU representative for Brexit with special focus on EU citizens rights. Focus, in an official capacity, on EU citizens rights. Not China, not Hong Kong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peterms Posted August 30, 2019 Share Posted August 30, 2019 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
colhint Posted August 30, 2019 Share Posted August 30, 2019 Isn't he the one who tried to introduce Franco German bonds to get round the EURO debt problem? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mjmooney Posted August 30, 2019 VT Supporter Share Posted August 30, 2019 10 hours ago, Enda said: Just on the “reminiscent of the Nazis” thing, there’s two ways to interpret this. The first way is to think it means the UK is on the precipice of gassing millions of people, which is absurd. The second way is to note a dramatic lurch to the right, complicity with the media, a significant reduction in democratic norms, and making scapegoats of/blaming everything on “them”. That’s absolutely happening. The other similarity is the total failure of the opposition parties to sink their differences to oppose the common enemy. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blandy Posted August 30, 2019 Author Moderator Share Posted August 30, 2019 4 hours ago, HanoiVillan said: 'If we make another assumption . . . then it probably makes more sense'. This is not solid evidence. His next 'evidence', that lots of these accounts were created in January 2017, hardly 'proves' anything. That's when Trump became President. Why would it be weird that lots of Trump fans signed up to Twitter around that time? There is no actual *evidence* presented that even a single one of these accounts is 'a group of paid MAGA trolls', which is where we came in.... Have a massive like for using your own (excellent) brain and not just accepting what's written by someone with a particular position on Brexit. Critical thinking is largely absent from all the to-ing and fro-ing on the whole thing. 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
colhint Posted August 30, 2019 Share Posted August 30, 2019 Didn't all opposition parties sink their differences to fight the Nazis? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mjmooney Posted August 30, 2019 VT Supporter Share Posted August 30, 2019 3 minutes ago, colhint said: Didn't all opposition parties sink their differences to fight the Nazis? Nope. Multiple left of centre parties expended their energy squabbling with each other, allowing the Nazis to get in with a minority of the overall vote. And the Nazis had been quite upfront about the fact that, if elected, they would abolish elections. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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