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The now-enacted will of (some of) the people


blandy

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33 minutes ago, blandy said:

I agree they'll try to Blame everyone else,  I don't think it'll stick, though.

The tax dodging press will find a distraction or scapegoat that the duped will find more palatable than facing up to being suckers.

Edited by Xann
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28 minutes ago, AXD said:

We don’t either in Belgium, but every party says more or less who is their candidate is should they be the largest party. What I mean is, Boris was not the one put forward, otherwise the result of the last election would have probably been different. 

Yes I understand.

In the UK you vote for your local representative, who is usually affiliated with a party, and the party that gets the most seats forms the government and that party then puts the Prime Minister in place, who is usually their leader. If during that time in government the party changes it's leadership, it doesn't matter, because you vote for your local MP and they decide who their leader is. It's stupid, but that's the way it is. Often you'll find new PMs do seek elections fairly quickly either because part of the reason their predecessor went is due to the makeup of parliament so an election is a quick way of trying to change the numbers, or simply because of the timetable meaning an election is due soon anyway.

We probably should update things because this system predates the idea of the Prime Minister being such a visible presence.

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2 minutes ago, Chindie said:

We probably should update things because this system predates the idea of the Prime Minister being such a visible presence.

Update things? Thats an awfully civil way of putting it :mrgreen:

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In other times, it's the kind of move that'd lead to civil war and the floppy haired buffoon's head on a **** spike.

Prime minister for a month, and he's attempted to block the democratic process in a way that as far as I can tell is unprecedented.

It seems widely despised a move, is it possible he's sealed his own fate in a VonC?

Edited by Davkaus
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2 hours ago, blandy said:

the tories are toast electorally, whatever short term polls might tell us over the next few weeks. Once the fan is hit, the muck is going to bury the words removed.

I still don't understand why Johnson has been so casual about pissing off whole sections of his own party, starting with his ministerial selections, then prompting (still) influential figures like Major and Heseltine to speak so publically and so critically against him, and now it seems losing people like Gyimah and Davidson.

This will do long term damage which will be hard to repair.  That's a good thing, but I don't see why he has chosen to do it.  It seems like a big political mistake at the most elementary level.

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11 minutes ago, peterms said:

It seems like a big political mistake at the most elementary level.

You should email  his numerous strategists and political advisors and tell them  :)

 

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1 minute ago, tonyh29 said:

You should email  his numerous strategists and political advisors and tell them  :)

 

If you think it's the product of a thoughtful and considered strategy, rather than a self-defeating and hubristic display of the arrogance of temporary power, please be so kind as to explain the master plan which remains obscure to the likes of me.

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Having not thought about it that much I can only think the 'strategy' is either to dare Parliament to go for VONC with the end game of the election every single person in the country knows is coming, to play chicken with the aim of forcing a no deal or Johnson deal situation, or to force a no deal to get over the hurdle and hope with that gone the agenda will change (which it won't, it'll just change flavour).

In any case, the decision is a disgrace.

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2 minutes ago, peterms said:

If you think it's the product of a thoughtful and considered strategy, rather than a self-defeating and hubristic display of the arrogance of temporary power, please be so kind as to explain the master plan which remains obscure to the likes of me.

No you’re right , I’m sure having coveted being PM since his school days he woke up this morning and thought  **** it I think I’d rather be presenting Have I got news for you let’s see how I get out of this PM gig

 

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Interesting comment here.

If even Sky are taken aback by the brazen nature of the secretive machinations of these hangovers from feudal society, that should concern our lords and masters.

When this is compounded by Lord Snooty refusing to tell reporters what happened in the meeting of some of the privy council and queenie on the basis that "As you know, all conversations with Her Majesty are secret", it's not a good look for the monarchists and other right wingers among us.  We should demand more attention to the legitimacy of these processes, and not simply accept them because someone tells us they are part of our unwritten constitution.

 

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I’m not sure how much of a vote loser this is?

Tories will vote Tory. Their potential existential threat is / was the Brexit Party. They’re pulling the rug from under them.

Who would ever vote Tory again? .......And then Newsnight starts, and we have Diane Abbott, Jo Swinson and Barry Lady Garden.

 

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5 minutes ago, Chindie said:

Having not thought about it that much I can only think the 'strategy' is either to dare Parliament to go for VONC with the end game of the election every single person in the country knows is coming, to play chicken with the aim of forcing a no deal or Johnson deal situation, or to force a no deal to get over the hurdle and hope with that gone the agenda will change (which it won't, it'll just change flavour).

In any case, the decision is a disgrace.

Yes, I think that's broadly the approach.

What I don't get is why he seems so casual about alienating potential supporters along the way, with the arithmetic as it is, and with parliamentary discipline breaking down.  In such a situation alienating parts of your own side is just mad.

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Some lovely clips from the summer:

Gove: 'I think it would be a terrible thing, if having said that we should have more power in this country, and trust our institutions more, we did as [Raab] seems to be implying and shut the doors on Parliament'

Hancock: 'That goes against everything that those men who waded onto those beaches fought and died for, and I will not have it'

Rudd: 'It is a ridiculous suggestion to consider proroguing Parliament'

Javid: 'You don't deliver on democracy by trashing democracy; you know, we're not selecting a dictator of our country'

Looking forward to seeing some of those get rowed back. 'Everything those men who waded onto those beaches fought and died for', egads. 

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27 minutes ago, HanoiVillan said:

Some lovely clips from the summer:

Gove: 'I think it would be a terrible thing, if having said that we should have more power in this country, and trust our institutions more, we did as [Raab] seems to be implying and shut the doors on Parliament'

Hancock: 'That goes against everything that those men who waded onto those beaches fought and died for, and I will not have it'

Rudd: 'It is a ridiculous suggestion to consider proroguing Parliament'

Javid: 'You don't deliver on democracy by trashing democracy; you know, we're not selecting a dictator of our country'

Looking forward to seeing some of those get rowed back. 'Everything those men who waded onto those beaches fought and died for', egads. 

Their response is that they didn’t prorogue parliament until the 1st of November, instead they did if for a few extra days than would have happened anyway due to party conferences and there is still time left for parliament to have its say.

If they thought that argument might fly in the court of ‘public opinion’ it would seem they are mistaken. 

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