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Should I stay or should I go now - U.K. in/out of the EU (contd.)

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Obviously, if the report is correct and this is the intention then it's a real problem.

A (new) government that has made its most important immediate goal to leave the EU on Oct 31st (such that the new foreward to the Ministerial Code sets this out clearly) is suggesting that 6 weeks of the 9ish weeks of time available to Parliament to consider legislation with regard to this (leaving the EU) should be spaffed up the wall (five weeks on prorogation and a week on the Queen's Speech).

There may be an argument that 3 weeks were due to go in a recess for the conferences but there was much talk about binning that. Still, that was only 3 weeks rather than 5 or 6 weeks.

Edit: Thinking further on it, I think it's most definitely in order to provoke a Vote of No Confidence and trying to force a GE.

Edited by snowychap

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If you ever needed evidence of how devisive this vote has been, take a look at Twitter now. Brexiteers gleeful because it will 'trigger' remainers, completely contradicting their argument that the reason for leaving is the EU is anti-democratic.

The only important thing is their side 'winning' rather than the good of the country and people will go along with anything as long as they can say their side won.

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2 minutes ago, djdabush said:

The only important thing is their side 'winning' rather than the good of the country and people will go along with anything as long as they can say their side won.

This is my experience too.

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What does 'I voted Remain' mega-clearing in the woods Piers Morgan have to say?

 

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2 minutes ago, StefanAVFC said:

What does 'I voted Remain' mega-clearing in the woods Piers Morgan have to say?

 

Its a horrible situation, like @djdabushsaid, it has turned into leavers versus remainers with nobody that bother about the mega mess to the country. Its treated like a football rivalry when it's actually far, far more serious than that.

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Stating that there's no mandate for No Deal in the country is not an anti-democratic position and that's the position that Boris Johnson is suspending parliament to get around. 

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30 minutes ago, desensitized43 said:

protest march

In a future UK (a few days in reality) that contains facial recognition and a one party Government without any actual opposition of note,  I would give it a swerve to be honest.

That,  and the fact that Leave+Remain+Police in the same place wont end well.

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Any chance the queen will say no, just **** get on with it and stop making this  country look like a bunch of clowns.

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Going to be an interesting few weeks coming up.

 

ok go popcorn GIF

 

 

Edited by LondonLax
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4 minutes ago, Genie said:

Its a horrible situation, like @djdabushsaid, it has turned into leavers versus remainers with nobody that bother about the mega mess to the country.

I think that's very wrong indeed.

There are plenty of people incredibly concerned about the goings on in terms of what they say about our country, our constitution and the future of politics and representative democracy in the UK.

It may be a quieter voice in most circles than the 'leavers' and 'remainers' but it is most definitely out there (and in this thread - fwiw).

 

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20 minutes ago, djdabush said:

If you ever needed evidence of how devisive this vote has been, take a look at Twitter now. Brexiteers gleeful because it will 'trigger' remainers, completely contradicting their argument that the reason for leaving is the EU is anti-democratic.

The only important thing is their side 'winning' rather than the good of the country and people will go along with anything as long as they can say their side won.

Yep, that's what it's about for them. It's football match mentality, they can't see beyond that - and probably don't understand the implications. And when it does go to shit, it'll be the fault of the EU, lefties, liberals, Muslims, the Polish, and anybody but the fat cat posh pricks who caused this + their own dumb ignorance.

Edited by avfcDJ
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Just now, snowychap said:

I think that's very wrong indeed.

There are plenty of people incredibly concerned about the goings on in terms of what they say about our country, our constitution and the future of politics and representative democracy in the UK.

It may be a quieter voice in most circles than the 'leavers' and 'remainers' but it is most definitely out there (and in this thread - fwiw).

 

Yes, sorry, I thought it went without saying I was not referring to 100% of the general public. The Piers Morgan tweet summed it up well, an opinion often has to include an attack on the "other side" complete with playground nickname. 

I see very little from leavers on my Facebook feed about what's best for the country, but an awful lot about having to "suck it up", the result must stand, the votes of the 17m must stand etc. Never anything to suggest/support it's the best thing to do.

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We've gone from:

- 'We will get the best deal in history, and anyone suggesting that No Deal is an option is scaremongering'

to

- The unelected PM Suspending parliament to stop MPs from legally and democratically preventing No Deal

In 3 years

Wtf happened!?

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1 minute ago, StefanAVFC said:

We've gone from:

- 'We will get the best deal in history, and anyone suggesting that No Deal is an option is scaremongering'

to

- The unelected PM Suspending parliament to stop MPs from legally and democratically preventing No Deal

In 3 years

Wtf happened!?

In all that time we neither managed to secure any kind of deal with anyone, or come up with a solution to the Irish border, but as you say, it was all just project fear...

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Vote of No Confidence is now necessary next week, surely?

Possible outcomes:

  • Current government just holds on through Labour rebels (Hoey, Mann, &c. who are then ejected from the Labour party and commit themselves to supporting the government on all matters through to 1st November) and, perhaps, some Changeists. Whether this pushes the EU to change anything or at least offer a further extension is, I think, unlikely. I think this means 'no deal' would be almost certain.
  • Current government loses by a vote or two and they get their way of a GE (as enough Labour rebels are there which won't support a temporary administration to avoid 'no deal' on Oct 31st) which will then take place on a 'People v MPs' basis but may well be called for after 31st October.

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13 minutes ago, Genie said:

Any chance the queen will say no, just **** get on with it and stop making this  country look like a bunch of clowns.

It's not her way but I bet she is close to something like that.  She will inevitably die at some point soon which is unfortunate but the legacy for her will be Brexit and a country divided. 

No matter what you think of her,  this is a shame and she really doesn't deserve it.  I am a bit gutted for her.

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2 minutes ago, Genie said:

In all that time we neither managed to secure any kind of deal with anyone, or come up with a solution to the Irish border, but as you say, it was all just project fear...

The backstop is a solution.

But the Tories stomped their feet and said it isn't good enough, whilst not suggesting an alternative.

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6 minutes ago, Genie said:

Yes, sorry, I thought it went without saying I was not referring to 100% of the general public. The Piers Morgan tweet summed it up well, an opinion often has to include an attack on the "other side" complete with playground nickname. 

I see very little from leavers on my Facebook feed about what's best for the country, but an awful lot about having to "suck it up", the result must stand, the votes of the 17m must stand etc. Never anything to suggest/support it's the best thing to do.

Sure, sorry.

I agree that's how most of the stuff comes across. I do think that it's important to recognise that there is a proportion of people who have a problem with all of this and did so from the start, however.

Cameron & Osborne really have to take a huge part of the blame for what is happening now.

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7 minutes ago, snowychap said:

Vote of No Confidence is now necessary next week, surely?

Well, Soubry is ruling this out at the moment.

Edited by snowychap

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