bickster Posted August 19, 2019 Moderator Share Posted August 19, 2019 oops, not even competent at bullshite Quote The government just emailed confidential Brexit information to the wrong person There’s Alok of blame to go around. A confidential email about government no-deal preparations has mistakenly made its way into the inbox of a Labour backbencher. The email, sent by a senior civil servant at the Department for Justice, reminds government departments that today is the deadline set by the Prime Minister for them to submit to No 10 their full analysis of no-deal preparations, as well as “a list of policy decisions required to reach a steady state after a ‘No Deal’ scenario”. Following the leaks about Operation Yellowhammer over the weekend... sent to Labour backbencher Virendra Sharma, seems to have been intended for the new International Development Secretary, Alok Sharma... New Statesman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chindie Posted August 19, 2019 VT Supporter Share Posted August 19, 2019 'Mistakenly'. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blandy Posted August 19, 2019 Author Moderator Share Posted August 19, 2019 12 minutes ago, HanoiVillan said: but what they want the EU to do, say or think is a bit of a closed book. The throbbers, plus the opportunists have been saying for ages "Get rid of the backstop" - they've been saying "we want a deal, but the backstop has to go, because it'll be used to trap us in the customs union forever". That's what they want the EU to do - remove the backstop. That's it. As I've written before (probably too many times), I think all the no deal stuff is just a "we have to make the EU believe we mean it, so they make some concession on the backstop" . The plan, I think, is to get some words from the EU, get the amended or caveated deal through parliament, leave on 31 Oct. That's it. It's absolutely not really "no deal". It's not remotely cunning, or clever and has a risk of blowing up in their faces, either because the EU call their bluff, or because sufficient MPs fall for the ruse and block it one way or another. The threat of an election which no tory MPs want, which at least half of Labour MPs don't want is another lever to use, by Johnson, to pressure MPs to vote through an amended deal. Pressure the EU, pressure the MPs, get a deal through that has some weasel out on the backstop. Yeah, it's transparent and it's bobbins, but there we are. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StefanAVFC Posted August 19, 2019 Share Posted August 19, 2019 Just to repeat. The backstop was requested by us, and created, by us. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blandy Posted August 19, 2019 Author Moderator Share Posted August 19, 2019 9 minutes ago, StefanAVFC said: requested by us, and created, by us. Well, yes, (though I'm not sure that "requested" is quite right - more suggested/proposed as a workround) but that's neither here nor there. The problem is the "us" you're talking about isn't the throbby and opportunist "us" that's now running the UK. The throbbers are quite happy to claim that any moment now technology will come along, (meaning the backstop "insurance policy" will not be ever required) yet also absolutely furious that the backstop exists. Mentalists. And after all that it's only needed because of one of May's self decided red lines and a unicorn about trade deals. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ml1dch Posted August 19, 2019 Share Posted August 19, 2019 43 minutes ago, blandy said: The plan, I think, is to get some words from the EU, get the amended or caveated deal through parliament, leave on 31 Oct. That's it. Pretty ropey plan. If all parties suddenly turned around tomorrow and said "here's the fully agreed new text" (they won't), Parliament instantly agreed (they wouldn't) then there aren't enough parliamentary sitting days between now and the end of October to pass the necessary legislation. The only way we leave on October 31st is full-on, Thelma and Louise style. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisp65 Posted August 19, 2019 Share Posted August 19, 2019 5 hours ago, HanoiVillan said: This plan seems, on its face, to be nonsensical. As far as I can tell, there is no visa that EU citizens can apply for for short visits. What's more, the cut-off date for applications for Leave to Remain for EU citizens is not for a long time into the future. There will be no way for EU citizens who have lived here before to prove their residency in the UK, unless they take paper copies of bills and bank statements when travelling home. The likely outcome of actually implementing this decision would surely be chaos at the border, as thousands of sympathetic cases (came back to see my mother on her death bed! Coming to begin training as a nurse in the NHS! Coming to become a coach for a football team!) get detained in Heathrow, and journalists find them for interviews. Back in the day, when I lived two streets up from the beach it was a regular occurrence for the island to be ‘full’ and so the police would park across the road bridge and declare it full and closed. So I had to carry proof I lived over there to be allowed on. So I would literally have to take a gas bill, or some sort of paperwork with me. Which pretty quickly escalated in to everyone that lived on the island giving utility bills and mail to their mates and relatives so they could all enjoy free access. I see absolutely no possible parallels in this digital age of hi tech border control. 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HanoiVillan Posted August 19, 2019 Share Posted August 19, 2019 1 hour ago, blandy said: The throbbers, plus the opportunists have been saying for ages "Get rid of the backstop" - they've been saying "we want a deal, but the backstop has to go, because it'll be used to trap us in the customs union forever". That's what they want the EU to do - remove the backstop. That's it. As I've written before (probably too many times), I think all the no deal stuff is just a "we have to make the EU believe we mean it, so they make some concession on the backstop" . The plan, I think, is to get some words from the EU, get the amended or caveated deal through parliament, leave on 31 Oct. That's it. It's absolutely not really "no deal". It's not remotely cunning, or clever and has a risk of blowing up in their faces, either because the EU call their bluff, or because sufficient MPs fall for the ruse and block it one way or another. The threat of an election which no tory MPs want, which at least half of Labour MPs don't want is another lever to use, by Johnson, to pressure MPs to vote through an amended deal. Pressure the EU, pressure the MPs, get a deal through that has some weasel out on the backstop. Yeah, it's transparent and it's bobbins, but there we are. @ml1dch has touched on some of the problems with the 'pass a WA bill with no backstop' plan, but just to touch on a couple of the risks: firstly, I don't see how the government can be sure it would pass (there are quite a few ERG types who won't vote for any form of bill, and the government only has a majority of 1) and the government doesn't want to introduce legislation as it would be at risk of amendment. The particular danger of Boris' No Backstop Bill is that it would be amended to make it pursuant to a second referendum. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LondonLax Posted August 19, 2019 Share Posted August 19, 2019 4 hours ago, StefanAVFC said: Just to repeat. The backstop was requested by us, and created, by us. The current version of the ‘backstop’ was requested by the UK. The original version proposed by the EU was that only Northern Ireland needed a backstop to prevent a border check between Ire/NI. The actual check could then happen in the Irish Sea. This was a red line for the DUP who are propping up the government so the current backstop was requested and then signed off on by May. May then found she could not get it through parliament (because she was utterly useless at consensus politics and made her policies in isolation). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snowychap Posted August 19, 2019 Share Posted August 19, 2019 (edited) Edit: He acknowledges he meant 31/10 later in response to someone. Edited August 19, 2019 by snowychap Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snowychap Posted August 19, 2019 Share Posted August 19, 2019 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisp65 Posted August 19, 2019 Share Posted August 19, 2019 It's already started. Those poncey M5 services outside Gloucester were selling jars of pickled onions today for £24 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HanoiVillan Posted August 19, 2019 Share Posted August 19, 2019 31 minutes ago, chrisp65 said: It's already started. Those poncey M5 services outside Gloucester were selling jars of pickled onions today for £24 Those services are ridiculous. I don't think I've ever been somewhere I felt so out of place and uncomfortable. I also ate the absolute worst pie I've ever encountered there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snowychap Posted August 19, 2019 Share Posted August 19, 2019 (edited) 22 minutes ago, HanoiVillan said: Those services are ridiculous. I don't think I've ever been somewhere I felt so out of place and uncomfortable. I also ate the absolute worst pie I've ever encountered there. Really? Massively better than the standard excessively over-priced cack you get at services (and I'm including ones with the M&S food franchises). What flavour? The lamb ones are normally pretty decent. Edited August 19, 2019 by snowychap Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HanoiVillan Posted August 19, 2019 Share Posted August 19, 2019 3 minutes ago, snowychap said: Really? What flavour? The lamb ones are normally pretty decent. Yes, I think it was the lamb one. Couldn't get on with it at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheAuthority Posted August 19, 2019 VT Supporter Share Posted August 19, 2019 31 minutes ago, HanoiVillan said: Yes, I think it was the lamb one. Couldn't get on with it at all. I think this whole Brexit thing is baaaaaahrmy* *sorry 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisp65 Posted August 20, 2019 Share Posted August 20, 2019 2 hours ago, snowychap said: Really? Massively better than the standard excessively over-priced cack you get at services (and I'm including ones with the M&S food franchises). What flavour? The lamb ones are normally pretty decent. 1 hour ago, HanoiVillan said: Yes, I think it was the lamb one. Couldn't get on with it at all. I had ‘steak and vegetable’, £3.70 and it was actually a carrot pie with a single cube of meat in it. Won’t be falling for that trick twice. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bickster Posted August 20, 2019 Moderator Share Posted August 20, 2019 4 hours ago, chrisp65 said: 6 hours ago, HanoiVillan said: I had ‘steak and vegetable’, £3.70 and it was actually a carrot pie with a single cube of meat in it. Won’t be falling for that trick twice. I'm fairly sure there is actually one of those pesky EU rules everyone hates about such flagrant descriptive abuse Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Genie Posted August 20, 2019 Share Posted August 20, 2019 14 hours ago, bickster said: oops, not even competent at bullshite New Statesman It was nice of her to make it public knowledge wasn't it given just how much is at stake here. If I get an email from a colleague that's not intended for me I give them a quick call and let them know that they need to be a bit more careful. Saying that I don't know what to believe any more, maybe its part of some elaborate plan and was supposed to go to her anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peterms Posted August 20, 2019 Share Posted August 20, 2019 1 hour ago, Genie said: I don't know what to believe any more, maybe its part of some elaborate plan and was supposed to go to her anyway. Apparently it just reminds departments about a forthcoming internal deadline that's already public knowledge, so it seems to be no more than a trivial though slightly embarrassing mistake. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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