The now-enacted will of (some of) the people

[snowychap]

 

[blandy]

5 hours ago, tonyh29 said:

strange that 2 Japanese companies are moving long term production back to Japan weeks after signing a trade deal with the EU , Honda are also closing their Turkey plant and wont have any EU car production outside of Japan

 

It's not up for debate that Brexit is having an impact on some companies decision making  ,  but like "Browns recession " was a global recession ,  there is more at play in the world at the moment than Brexit  , for remainers to ignore those factors is  to be expected but also disingenuous 

I think the counter to that (there's obviously some truth in what you say) is that with an agreement with the EU now in place, Japanese car co.s can make cars in their own land, and making them outside the EU would be ultimately if not daft, then not putting Japan first. Obviously new models down the line - from their perspective why not make them in Japan, set up the new lines in Japan, rather than outside the EU where tariffs would be higher making their cars less competitive.

It's also true that while as we know other factors apart from Brexit are at play, Brexit is A factor, and thus making it harder to keep hold of things. "not completely Brexit's fault" is Not the same as "nothing to do with Brexit" which quite a few Brexit throbber proponents have been saying. As you say with the 2008 recession, it obviously wasn't caused by Brown (and predecessors), but they were part of the overall problem.

[bickster]

58 minutes ago, snowychap said:

 

Well my flabber is not even remotely ghasted

[peterms]

7 hours ago, tonyh29 said:

It's not up for debate that Brexit is having an impact on some companies decision making  ,  but like "Browns recession " was a global recession ,  there is more at play in the world at the moment than Brexit  , for remainers to ignore those factors is  to be expected but also disingenuous  

Yes.

Also, firms faced with taking decisions which will be unpopular,  will break trust with employees and suppliers, and will damage their image (should we say "lose face" when discussing a Japanese company, or is that an Angela Smith-tinged comment?) will prefer if at all possible to blame external factors rather than say they got their business plan wrong.

I don't think there's anything shameful in getting a business plan wrong by the way, in fact what's shameful is companies presenting 25 year scenarios with confidence when they and others really don't have a clue about what will happen in 3 years.

But yes, firms will blame factors external to themselves and which postdate their last big decision, and remainers and leavers will present anything as evidence of their preexisting view.

[peterms]

How we will miss Andrew Neil when he is finally retired from public life, his fingernails tracing tracks in the flooring from his desk to the car park.

 

[HanoiVillan]

Just why?

Why is he replying to that tweet? Why is he getting annoyed about whatever Alan Sugar thinks? Why is he allowed to pretend to be an impartial arbiter in political debates, when he oh so very obviously has one particular set of opinions? Why is he still on the BBC?

[bickster]

41 minutes ago, HanoiVillan said:

Just why?

Why is he replying to that tweet? Why is he getting annoyed about whatever Alan Sugar thinks? Why is he allowed to pretend to be an impartial arbiter in political debates, when he oh so very obviously has one particular set of opinions? Why is he still on the BBC?

He's not, Sugar called him out first. He's responding to that

And as much as I despise Neill, he is still capable of asking pertinent questions and getting an interviewee to squirm, something the rest of his colleagues seem incapable of. He is also an utter arse whose bias shines through very regularly. In my BBC he'd be gone but he still has some skills that some of his colleagues never even tried to learn.

I'd get rid of the likes of Marr first who might as well get his guests to roll on the floor for a tummy tickle than ask them questions

[NurembergVillan]

19 minutes ago, bickster said:

I'd get rid of the likes of Marr first who might as well get his guests to roll on the floor for a tummy tickle than ask them questions

 

He does seem to like the occasional stroke.

[HanoiVillan]

24 minutes ago, bickster said:

He's not, Sugar called him out first. He's responding to that

Fair enough. 

Edited February 19, 2019 by HanoiVillan

[ml1dch]

21 minutes ago, bickster said:

And as much as I despise Neill, he is still capable of asking pertinent questions and getting an interviewee to squirm

"I wonder, does the editor have any other pictures of Mr. Neil encouraging his companion for the evening to squirm?"

[peterms]

14 minutes ago, ml1dch said:

"I wonder, does the editor have any other pictures of Mr. Neil encouraging his companion for the evening to squirm?"

 

[blandy]

2 hours ago, peterms said:

Yes.

Also, firms faced with taking decisions which will be unpopular,  will break trust with employees and suppliers, and will damage their image (should we say "lose face" when discussing a Japanese company, or is that an Angela Smith-tinged comment?) will prefer if at all possible to blame external factors rather than say they got their business plan wrong.

I don't think there's anything shameful in getting a business plan wrong by the way, in fact what's shameful is companies presenting 25 year scenarios with confidence when they and others really don't have a clue about what will happen in 3 years.

But yes, firms will blame factors external to themselves and which postdate their last big decision, and remainers and leavers will present anything as evidence of their preexisting view.

To to add to that, there’s the angle of “don’t shit your own bed”. Why, from their perspective piss off a government that might, down the line, give or support your investment. Call it good manners, call it business savvy, call it what you like, but burning bridges isn’t smart practice.

[chrisp65]

Sooner we get this gun boat patrolling the Pacific the better.

Take back control.

[peterms]

4 minutes ago, blandy said:

burning bridges isn’t smart practice.

There's a whole Boris Johnson riff here for the asking, what with extracurricular activities, Brexit, the Garden Bridge...but it's past my bedtime...

[LakotaDakota]

The car industry employs lots of people so it is always noticable if things change/close but it isn't just over here. Ford are no longer making the focus in Argentina & have announced today that they are closing a 50 year old factory in Brazil with the loss of 2800 jobs. They are also cutting manufacture & scrapping production of some models in france, germany & more than likely russia.

All a mixture of cost cutting, closing not profitable departments and the mass enforced switch of everything going electric soon.

They are not the only ones by any means & it isn't just brexit causing issues in this sector.

Edited February 20, 2019 by LakotaDakota

[ml1dch]

It's certainly rotten luck for the Government that lots of things that people said would happen because of Brexit are happening at the precise time that they are grossly mismanaging Brexit, but for reasons that are nothing to do with Brexit.

I mean, what are the chances?

[tonyh29]

1 hour ago, ml1dch said:

It's certainly rotten luck for the Government that lots of things that people said would happen because of Brexit are happening at the precise time that they are grossly mismanaging Brexit, but for reasons that are nothing to do with Brexit.

I mean, what are the chances?

Both myself and LD ( the only 2 to comment) said it wasn’t “just Brexit” 

so nobody has actually said it’s nothing to do with Brexit 

interestingly though before my post there was much merriment about Diesel and people of Surrey ... yet not one of those posters then ripped my post to shreds *  , you’d have thought it would have been easy ? Maybe they just cba , maybe they were busy , or maybe deep down they acknowledge there are some other factors at play ( as well as Brexit )

I agree with you they are mismanaging Brexit fwiw  , unless we are all missing some grand spectre type master plan 

 

 

* snowy and Hanoi did comment about the wage growth figures being misleading , they used a better source than me I just read it from Reuters 

[blandy]

4 minutes ago, tonyh29 said:

so nobody has actually said it’s nothing to do with Brexit 

 

Lots of people have said it's nothing to do with Brexit. Not on VT, but outside in the nasty world.

[snowychap]

14 hours ago, bickster said:

Well my flabber is not even remotely ghasted

I did see on Newsnight last night that it wasn't apparently quite as dead as reported - at least that's what May is saying to the ERGs in her meetings with them, it was claimed.

Imagine that, she (and her government representatives) couldn't be saying one thing to one lot of people and something else to another, could they?

[Chindie]

10 minutes ago, tonyh29 said:

Both myself and LD ( the only 2 to comment) said it wasn’t “just Brexit” 

so nobody has actually said it’s nothing to do with Brexit 

interestingly though before my post there was much merriment about Diesel and people of Surrey ... yet not one of those posters then ripped my post to shreds *  , you’d have thought it would have been easy ? Maybe they just cba , maybe they were busy , or maybe deep down they acknowledge there are some other factors at play ( as well as Brexit )

I agree with you they are mismanaging Brexit fwiw  , unless we are all missing some grand spectre type master plan 

 

 

* snowy and Hanoi did comment about the wage growth figures being misleading , they used a better source than me I just read it from Reuters 

I don't think anyone thinks it's 'only' Brexit that is the issue. With Honda it appears the plant has been struggling for a while, for instance. But Brexit is a factor (I believe Honda themselves admitted it was a concern in the same much vaunted statement they said it wasn't), and it has to be due simply to logistics. But people have said it isn't Brexit isn't the issue at all. And that's simply not true.

As for commenting on your post yesterday, since you obviously directed this comment at me, I was doing other things yesterday and looking at it now, it appears to mostly be directed at a post I didn't like or agree with, so why waste my time countering it (if I even felt it should be)? And yes I've made a few pokes at your stance, but that's because you're the leading poster here that seems to rubbish or diminish criticism of Brexit. It's taken nearly 3 years to get to the point that Brexit has any effect at all in these posts, I seem to recall previously it was just denied or hand waved. Now its hand waved with 'yeah, it's a factor, but a back of the queue not really relevant at all factor so don't be hysterical'.