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The now-enacted will of (some of) the people


blandy

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11 minutes ago, WhatAboutTheFinish said:

Of course the UK government had a way to avoid the current backstop fiasco back in 2016, that was to hold parallel talks on withdrawal and future trade.  The EU drew a completely arbitrary red line that has subsequently proved to be a mistake. Without it, the whole Irish border equation could have been resolved, one way or another, by now.

Perhaps. If we were entering into talks with the intention of retaining Single Market and Customs Union membership, there's an argument that nothing extra was needed to clarify the border in Ireland. As there would be no deviation on anything, so no need for anything to be checked, now or in the future.

As that's not the case, arguing about where the border is going to be in order to check those differences doesn't seem that stupid a place to start.

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2 minutes ago, maqroll said:

What are the things people expect to affect them immediately upon Brexit?

We retake Normandy and press on until all of Aquitane is liberated for Queen Meghan of Sussex.

 

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1 minute ago, chrisp65 said:

We retake Normandy and press on until all of Aquitane is liberated for Queen Meghan of Sussex.

 

The memo clearly said Dublin not Normandy  .. consider yourself removed from the post of Minister of Empires

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7 minutes ago, ml1dch said:

Perhaps. If we were entering into talks with the intention of retaining Single Market and Customs Union membership, there's an argument that nothing extra was needed to clarify the border in Ireland. As there would be no deviation on anything, so no need for anything to be checked, now or in the future.

As that's not the case, arguing about where the border is going to be in order to check those differences doesn't seem that stupid a place to start.

Indeed.

It's all well and good saying Withdrawal and future relationship could be done together, but what if during those discussions, suddenly the UK decides it doesn't want to be part of the Single Market (because the UK is **** insane)? The Withdrawal Agreement changes and the future relationship stuff had to be started again.

The Withdrawal Agreement has to come first. The significant reason the Withdrawal Agreement has been a complete shitshow is because we have spent 2 years fumbling around trying to decide what we want, and have then tried to chase unicorns where we wanted things the EU was never, ever going to agree to.

And then whinged about it.

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21 minutes ago, maqroll said:

What are the things people expect to affect them immediately upon Brexit?

I'm a UK national in an EU country. Not sure really. Just hoping that my rights to work aren't affected.

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4 minutes ago, tonyh29 said:

 

The memo clearly said Dublin not Normandy  .. consider yourself removed from the post of Minister of Empires

If we're aiming to take Aquitane but going via Dublin, I can only presume Chris Grayling was in charge getting the tickets.

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31 minutes ago, maqroll said:

What are the things people expect to affect them immediately upon Brexit?

To be honest, not a clue.

Possibly nothing that you'd notice, nothing that would genuinely impact day to day life. Who knows, it might even mean cheaper food or genuine new opportunities. It might mean more expensive insurance and a scarcity of trained, skilled and motivated staff.

The worry, with days to go, is that we don't know. That's spectacularly irresponsible of a government who's main aim is supposed to be our welfare and defence, but who have put their own party unity ahead of that.

Sheep lead by donkeys.

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As there's an increasing worry that there isn't enough time to get all of the legislative work that ought to be done before exit day (29/03/19) finished, we ought to note the following:

 

Edit: There is a Westminster Hall debate going on and The Lords is sitting and debating brexit-related matters (various SIs at the moment, I think).

Edited by snowychap
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20 minutes ago, snowychap said:

As there's an increasing worry that there isn't enough time to get all of the legislative work that ought to be done before exit day (29/03/19) finished, we ought to note the following:

 

Edit: There is a Westminster Hall debate going on and The Lords is sitting and debating brexit-related matters (various SIs at the moment, I think).

 

Apologies for replying to a tweet with another tweet, but this thread from the weekend was pretty eye-opening about what's just around the corner...

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3 hours ago, Chindie said:

It's all well and good saying Withdrawal and future relationship could be done together, but what if during those discussions, suddenly the UK decides it doesn't want to be part of the Single Market (because the UK is **** insane)? The Withdrawal Agreement changes and the future relationship stuff had to be started again.

You're right, though on the other hand, it's diificult without knowing what the trading arrangements are, to detail what the border measures needed are. There is some small merit in what @WhatAboutTheFinish 's comment about the EU red line of wanting to do political then trade agreements in that order. Equally of course May has idiotically done all the stupid things from triggering A50 with no plan, being in hock to the ERG throbbers, inventing her own arbitrary and counter productive red lines and so on.

I've given up following the detail of it all now, because the effing lot of them - May, Corbyn, ERG, 2nd ref lot - they're all 'kin hopeless.

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4 hours ago, maqroll said:

What are the things people expect to affect them immediately upon Brexit?

I expect to find intruders encroaching on my vegetable patch.  Fortunately, I have a sturdy garden fork, to fend the blighters off.

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Patrick Maguire:

Will Theresa May postpone next week’s Brexit vote?

'When MPs voted to give Theresa May a mandate to renegotiate the Irish backstop last month, the prime minister promised them another vote on Valentine’s Day should she fail to reach a new deal with the EU by February 13.

Interpreted in some quarters as a sop to ministers opposed to leaving without a deal, the prime minister’s promise of a statement on her next steps, followed by a debate and vote on an amendable motion, effectively teed up a repeat of the January 29 vote which saw Graham Brady’s amendment pass and Yvette Cooper’s fall.

With no new accord with Brussels in sight, and intra-Tory relations regressing to the status quo ante, the stage would appear to be set for another parliamentary reckoning for a prime minister next Thursday. If she keeps to her word, that is.

Next week’s parliamentary business will be laid before MPs tomorrow. Unlike last week’s vote, the timing of which was dictated by the EU Withdrawal Act, the Prime Minister is not obliged to follow through on her promise of another on Valentine’s Day. “Nothing binds her,” a Commons source admits, “but it’d be really bad form to have told the House and then not bring the vote back.”

But the object lesson of the past few months in Westminster is that when May is only bound by convention, unwritten rules or political decency, she is not squeamish about disregarding them for her own ends. And with attempts to broker a so-called compromise on the Irish border within the Conservative Party still underway, there is little political incentive for the prime minister to subject herself to another vote so soon.

Asked whether next Thursday’s vote will still happen, a Downing Street source refused to deny it would be postponed and said only that it is the government’s ambition for MPs to have their say “as soon as possible.” It is hardly a firm commitment, and in any case one that May has the means, motive and opportunity to shirk. Nothing is stopping her kicking the can further down the road – and there is reason to believe she is poised to do so.'

https://www.newstatesman.com/politics/uk/2019/02/will-theresa-may-postpone-next-week-s-brexit-vote

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