Demitri_C Posted October 30, 2019 Share Posted October 30, 2019 9 hours ago, snowychap said: Not pointless. Which constituency? Edit: I'm not trying to narrow down where you live, Dem. Enfield. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HanoiVillan Posted October 30, 2019 Share Posted October 30, 2019 9 hours ago, Vive_La_Villa said: What’s the point of a general election again? The four biggest parties have reached internal consensuses on what their Brexit offer is. The Tories are offering Johnson's WA, which they will all vote for; Labour are offering a renegotiation of a softer Brexit, then a referendum, which all bar about 20 of their MPs will vote for; the Lib Dems are offering to revoke article 50 if they win a majority, or the price of their support will be a second referendum; and the Brexit Party are offering/will offer if they emerge a No Deal Brexit. Since the parties have clarified their positions internally, over the last few months, if one were to win a majority, it would have a mandate to pursue its Brexit policy, plus the ability to get it through Parliament. One common retort is that another hung Parliament is a likely outcome, which is true (but far from certain). However, since the last Parliament had reached a point at which there was a 'blocking majority' for any possible course of action, the numbers needed to change. There is also a real case for democratic renewal. As I say, the parties have decided their positions, basically; now the voters should have the opportunity to express a preference. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ml1dch Posted October 30, 2019 Share Posted October 30, 2019 20 minutes ago, Demitri_C said: Enfield. If I were in your shoes I'd be holding my nose and tactically voting Labour. Not only because it would be a shame to lose an MP with such a great name. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Demitri_C Posted October 30, 2019 Share Posted October 30, 2019 1 hour ago, ml1dch said: If I were in your shoes I'd be holding my nose and tactically voting Labour. Not only because it would be a shame to lose an MP with such a great name. Labour has won that seat for years so won't make a difference. But I refuse to vote for labour while Corbyn is there. I'm voting lib dems. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Demitri_C Posted October 30, 2019 Share Posted October 30, 2019 1 hour ago, HanoiVillan said: The four biggest parties have reached internal consensuses on what their Brexit offer is. The Tories are offering Johnson's WA, which they will all vote for; Labour are offering a renegotiation of a softer Brexit, then a referendum, which all bar about 20 of their MPs will vote for; the Lib Dems are offering to revoke article 50 if they win a majority, or the price of their support will be a second referendum; and the Brexit Party are offering/will offer if they emerge a No Deal Brexit. Since the parties have clarified their positions internally, over the last few months, if one were to win a majority, it would have a mandate to pursue its Brexit policy, plus the ability to get it through Parliament. One common retort is that another hung Parliament is a likely outcome, which is true (but far from certain). However, since the last Parliament had reached a point at which there was a 'blocking majority' for any possible course of action, the numbers needed to change. There is also a real case for democratic renewal. As I say, the parties have decided their positions, basically; now the voters should have the opportunity to express a preference. How can the brexit party promise that? Johnson tried it and failed miserably. People won't fall for that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post mjmooney Posted October 30, 2019 VT Supporter Popular Post Share Posted October 30, 2019 3 minutes ago, Demitri_C said: People won't fall for that. 4 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Demitri_C Posted October 30, 2019 Share Posted October 30, 2019 Just now, mjmooney said: True as a lot of people did think brexit was a good idea 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ml1dch Posted October 30, 2019 Share Posted October 30, 2019 (edited) 23 minutes ago, Demitri_C said: Labour has won that seat for years so won't make a difference. But I refuse to vote for labour while Corbyn is there. Enfield? Conservative-for-60-of-the-last-70-years Enfield? Only-taken-from-the-Conservatives-in-2017-following-twelve-years-of-Tory-MP Enfield? I mean, it's your vote n' all. And I'm all for more people voting for the Lib Dems. And voting with their conscience. But mate, yours is the precise type of constituency where Conservative election planners are hoping that you do exactly what you are planning to do. It's their only path to a majority. In 2017 Labour got 25,000 votes, the Tories 20,000. The Lib Dems 2,000. The only way a Tory majority happens if dozens of Enfields turn that split into 13,000 each with the Tories coming through the middle. Edited October 30, 2019 by ml1dch 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HanoiVillan Posted October 30, 2019 Share Posted October 30, 2019 24 minutes ago, Demitri_C said: How can the brexit party promise that? Johnson tried it and failed miserably. People won't fall for that. It's currently unclear whether the Brexit Party is even seriously contesting the elections. If they do, it won't be in the hope or expectation that they win. As such, it's not a meaningful 'promise', it's simply an attempt to exert a rightward pressure on the Conservative Party's Brexit policy. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vive_La_Villa Posted October 30, 2019 Share Posted October 30, 2019 It feels like we’d be voting for the current deal on Brexit or a Labour government. Or is that wide of the mark? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Genie Posted October 30, 2019 Share Posted October 30, 2019 20 minutes ago, Demitri_C said: True as a lot of people did think brexit was a good idea I caught a bit of 5Live on the way to work this morning. They were doing a piece about how the north of England across the M62 will be key area's for marginal seats. They interviewed 3 or 4 people in this segment and when asked who he'd vote for one of them said "I'll vote for who I want, I just want them out". Reporter, who do you want out? "Them, I want them out, them lot who come over here and take all of our jobs". I can't believe that people are still that stupid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vive_La_Villa Posted October 30, 2019 Share Posted October 30, 2019 4 minutes ago, Genie said: I caught a bit of 5Live on the way to work this morning. They were doing a piece about how the north of England across the M62 will be key area's for marginal seats. They interviewed 3 or 4 people in this segment and when asked who he'd vote for one of them said "I'll vote for who I want, I just want them out". Reporter, who do you want out? "Them, I want them out, them lot who come over here and take all of our jobs". I can't believe that people are still that stupid. The majority of the country is stupid (I include myself in that). It’s why I think democracy is flawed. It’s just to make idiots like me feel like i’m in control of my fate. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HanoiVillan Posted October 30, 2019 Share Posted October 30, 2019 1 minute ago, Vive_La_Villa said: The majority of the country is stupid (I include myself in that). It’s why I think democracy is flawed. It’s just to make idiots like me feel like i’m in control of my fate. I think you do yourself a disservice mate. FWIW I don't have that impression of you at all. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dodgyknees Posted October 30, 2019 Share Posted October 30, 2019 40 minutes ago, Demitri_C said: Labour has won that seat for years so won't make a difference. But I refuse to vote for labour while Corbyn is there. I'm voting lib dems. Yet Swinson, who has voted with the government on more occasions than most Tories, and was a force behind austerity, is ok? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Genie Posted October 30, 2019 Share Posted October 30, 2019 2 minutes ago, Vive_La_Villa said: The majority of the country is stupid (I include myself in that). It’s why I think democracy is flawed. It’s just to make idiots like me feel like i’m in control of my fate. It was mega-stupid though. He didn't even say he'd vote Brexit party, or another party who he (wrongly) thought might believe would evict anyone with darker than a weak tea skin colour. He thought that voting for a party he hadn't even bothered to research would lead directly to eviction of millions of people. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dodgyknees Posted October 30, 2019 Share Posted October 30, 2019 2 minutes ago, HanoiVillan said: I think you do yourself a disservice mate. FWIW I don't have that impression of you at all. Same I don't think we have any stupid people on this forum. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StefanAVFC Posted October 30, 2019 Share Posted October 30, 2019 11 minutes ago, avfcDJ said: Same I don't think we have any stupid people on this forum. You've spent time in on-topic? 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dodgyknees Posted October 30, 2019 Share Posted October 30, 2019 3 minutes ago, StefanAVFC said: You've spent time in on-topic? I also forgot the Leeds fans. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Genie Posted October 30, 2019 Share Posted October 30, 2019 19 minutes ago, avfcDJ said: Same I don't think we have many stupid people on this forum. fixed 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vive_La_Villa Posted October 30, 2019 Share Posted October 30, 2019 (edited) 1 hour ago, HanoiVillan said: I think you do yourself a disservice mate. FWIW I don't have that impression of you at all. Thanks mate. I might be at the lower end of the stupid scale. I’m learning everyday. 1 hour ago, Genie said: It was mega-stupid though. He didn't even say he'd vote Brexit party, or another party who he (wrongly) thought might believe would evict anyone with darker than a weak tea skin colour. He thought that voting for a party he hadn't even bothered to research would lead directly to eviction of millions of people. This is definitely at the top end of the stupid scale. Bless Edited October 30, 2019 by Vive_La_Villa 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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