snowychap Posted October 24, 2019 Share Posted October 24, 2019 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AXD Posted October 25, 2019 Share Posted October 25, 2019 Quote Most voters think risk of violence against MPs is 'price worth paying' over Brexit Research finds majority of both leave and remain voters feel violence acceptable to get outcome they support https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2019/oct/24/majority-of-voters-think-violence-against-mps-is-price-worth-paying-for-brexit 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StefanAVFC Posted October 25, 2019 Share Posted October 25, 2019 (edited) 30 minutes ago, AXD said: https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2019/oct/24/majority-of-voters-think-violence-against-mps-is-price-worth-paying-for-brexit Madness Also madness Quote Despite leave voters’ conviction that Brexit should be delivered at all costs, over half of people throughout all three countries thought that the nation would become substantially poorer as a result of Brexit. However, a huge number of those who voted leave in the EU referendum believed that economic losses would be worth it – 76% in England and Scotland and 81% in Wales. Similarly, voters overwhelmingly felt that the potential destruction of the country’s farming and fishing industries would be a price worth paying for getting the result they wanted in the Brexit negotiations. Edited October 25, 2019 by StefanAVFC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vive_La_Villa Posted October 25, 2019 Share Posted October 25, 2019 38 minutes ago, AXD said: https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2019/oct/24/majority-of-voters-think-violence-against-mps-is-price-worth-paying-for-brexit The sample sizes are very small. I wouldn’t read much in to these results. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sharkyvilla Posted October 25, 2019 Share Posted October 25, 2019 45 minutes ago, AXD said: https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2019/oct/24/majority-of-voters-think-violence-against-mps-is-price-worth-paying-for-brexit 14 hours ago, Chindie said: I recommend you don't watch parliament often. Rees Mogg plays it like a debating game where the aim is to get his upper class mates to snigger. It's infuriating and I wouldn't blame anyone that felt the need to harm him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr_Pangloss Posted October 25, 2019 Share Posted October 25, 2019 (edited) I'm hoping that those who are happy for the nation to be poorer are the ones who are going to bare the brunt of it. That will be the real test of their martyrdom. Edited October 25, 2019 by Dr_Pangloss Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bickster Posted October 25, 2019 Moderator Share Posted October 25, 2019 34 minutes ago, Vive_La_Villa said: The sample sizes are very small. I wouldn’t read much in to these results. 4,103 respondents is not a small sample size It's how the respondents were chosen that is more important. If some bloke just visited Wetherspoons one morning, the sample won't be that representative, however, one would hope that the sample was derived more scientifically than this. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amsterdam_Neil_D Posted October 25, 2019 Share Posted October 25, 2019 (edited) 39 minutes ago, Dr_Pangloss said: I'm hoping that those who are happy for the nation to be poorer are the ones who are going to bare the brunt of it. That will be the real test of their martyrdom. The UK doesn't work like that and never will which is a shame, the people who get hurt by anything in the UK (recession, tax, health, job, housing, social care etc) are usually are the people who can effect change the least and have (in %) the most to lose. If you are poor, disabled, ill or homeless I'm 99.9% sure in 10 years time a study will find that these people were affected most and everyone else, not so much. Britain is built and designed like it to specifically protect the exact people who should as you infer pay the price. British politics is all fun and games when it's on the TV until you realise that for most people it is a harsh mistress with no conscious or feeling for 99% of the population and they are just in the end, playing little games with peoples futures. I don't live there anymore but I am a bit angry at the optics from abroad, I am well proud to say I am English but it looks **** at the moment (the UK). I am not so proud at the moment. Edited October 25, 2019 by Amsterdam_Neil_D 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bannedfromHandV Posted October 25, 2019 Share Posted October 25, 2019 1 hour ago, StefanAVFC said: Madness Also madness If you already have nothing, how can you lose something? Look at the demographs for the voting, run down shithole areas populated by undereducated and ageing people on the periphery of society - that’s your average leave voter, what can they possibly lose through an economic downturn that they haven’t already lost decades ago? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr_Pangloss Posted October 25, 2019 Share Posted October 25, 2019 35 minutes ago, bickster said: 4,103 respondents is not a small sample size It's how the respondents were chosen that is more important. If some bloke just visited Wetherspoons one morning, the sample won't be that representative, however, one would hope that the sample was derived more scientifically than this. Quite right as long as the design and reporting of results is correct. Representative sampling, central limit theorem, appropriate understanding of the margin of error and confidence intervals surrounding estimates etc... To say ~4k respondents in itself is too small to draw serious inference is boneheaded. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bannedfromHandV Posted October 25, 2019 Share Posted October 25, 2019 2 hours ago, AXD said: https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2019/oct/24/majority-of-voters-think-violence-against-mps-is-price-worth-paying-for-brexit I agree, let’s get the list started: Boris Rees Mogg Javid Rudd Gove that Polish guy (not Stefan) 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amsterdam_Neil_D Posted October 25, 2019 Share Posted October 25, 2019 15 minutes ago, bannedfromHandV said: If you already have nothing, how can you lose something? Look at the demographs for the voting, run down shithole areas populated by undereducated and ageing people on the periphery of society - that’s your average leave voter, what can they possibly lose through an economic downturn that they haven’t already lost decades ago? IMO, the most dangerous things in nature, sport and life are the things you fight with nothing to lose. Ultimately you will never win and as you say, they have nothing to lose. So nobody wins in the end, especially with Brexit if nothing else, it's the boxing match where the ref and both boxers all get knocked out in a comedy of errors unfortunately. When you taste the canvas in the end it will taste the same for you all i'm afraid. You either pushed for Brexit or failed to stop it, both not good looks to be fair for future generations to asses you all on. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amsterdam_Neil_D Posted October 25, 2019 Share Posted October 25, 2019 (edited) 2 minutes ago, bannedfromHandV said: that Polish guy (not Stefan) A little vague I feel, could cause more problems than you are trying to solve. 50% of Polish people are safe (+ Stefan) though, that's good. Edited October 25, 2019 by Amsterdam_Neil_D 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bannedfromHandV Posted October 25, 2019 Share Posted October 25, 2019 17 minutes ago, Amsterdam_Neil_D said: A little vague I feel, could cause more problems than you are trying to solve. 50% of Polish people are safe (+ Stefan) though, that's good. Haha yeah should have narrowed it down more...... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vive_La_Villa Posted October 25, 2019 Share Posted October 25, 2019 49 minutes ago, Dr_Pangloss said: Quite right as long as the design and reporting of results is correct. Representative sampling, central limit theorem, appropriate understanding of the margin of error and confidence intervals surrounding estimates etc... To say ~4k respondents in itself is too small to draw serious inference is boneheaded. To then use it as a headline to say majority of voters think violence against MP’s is a price worth paying to achieve Brexit is both far fetched and irresponsible in my opinion. I’d expect it from tabloids rather than The Guardian. If that makes me boneheaded then so be it. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rodders Posted October 25, 2019 Share Posted October 25, 2019 that's how surveys work. Small samples is the 56 people cited on shampoo adverts. c4000 is sufficient to make pretty decent statements about the data, and the headline is a perfectly fair representation of those findings. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amsterdam_Neil_D Posted October 25, 2019 Share Posted October 25, 2019 1 hour ago, bannedfromHandV said: If you already have nothing, how can you lose something? I don't know but it's happened. It defies logic, I agree. 1 hour ago, bannedfromHandV said: Look at the demographs for the voting, run down shithole areas populated by undereducated and ageing people on the periphery of society - that’s your average leave voter, what can they possibly lose through an economic downturn that they haven’t already lost decades ago? This may be true, I don't know but if a government creates the places as you describe over the last 50 years is it not a little out of order MP's moaning they didn't vote how everyone wanted them too ? If it's a bribe then it's rubbish. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amsterdam_Neil_D Posted October 25, 2019 Share Posted October 25, 2019 14 minutes ago, Rodders said: that's how surveys work. Small samples is the 56 people cited on shampoo adverts. Boswollocks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bickster Posted October 25, 2019 Moderator Share Posted October 25, 2019 24 minutes ago, Rodders said: that's how surveys work. Small samples is the 56 people cited on shampoo adverts. c4000 is sufficient to make pretty decent statements about the data, and the headline is a perfectly fair representation of those findings. Correct and the headline doesn't say what he claims it says either Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blandy Posted October 25, 2019 Author Moderator Share Posted October 25, 2019 5 minutes ago, Amsterdam_Neil_D said: This may be true, I don't know but if a government creates the places as you describe over the last 50 years is it not a little out of order MP's moaning they didn't vote how everyone wanted them too ? If it's a bribe then it's rubbish. 'zackly. A lot of the people up north particularly who voted for Brexit didn't do it because they specifically considered the intricate merits of the SIngle market, CUstoms Union and all the rest, they did it because for 50 odd years, and certainly since that witch thatcher, the north and midlands has been pretty much ignored in favour of fancy London, stock markets and bankers. "London - yeah, have billions of quid for cross rail. No the north, you can't have trains that aren't converted buses which keep breaking down". over and over. Mines, factories, Industries shut down and gig economy jobs in warehouses in the North. Merchant banking in the South. Cuts to council funding hitting the North and Labour areas much harder than the South and Tory areas. Just decline and powerlessness. Brexit voters thinking "it won't hit my prosperity because I haven't got prosperity and don't benefit from prosperity". Yes, it's easy to say "it's still counterproductive" for them. But you're right multiple governments have not given enough of a damn about these places, nowhere near enough. "Austerity" and tory complacency caused the Brexit vote. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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