Mic09 Posted October 23, 2019 Share Posted October 23, 2019 2 minutes ago, chrisp65 said: Richard Burgon, Labour Shadow Secretary of State for Justice said this morning on R4 that any desire for a referendum was ‘fantasy land’. We can either help get this bill through in a matter of weeks with some amendments, or go for a general election. I wonder what Labour's manifesto will say about the referendum though! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Demitri_C Posted October 23, 2019 Share Posted October 23, 2019 To be fair to @brommy He hasn't said he shares that view so I don't feel the need for educate him on immigrants as we know there is positives and negatives with anything in life. As @StefanAVFC said earlier why are the immigrants in the eu any different from the ones that come here outside from the eu? As long as they come here to work and better the country and themselves thats all that matters. Yippee another election just what this country needs. I'm voting lib dems as they are only party who have said they will revoke brexit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StefanAVFC Posted October 23, 2019 Share Posted October 23, 2019 6 hours ago, snowychap said: No, don't. You're right. I knew what I was trying to say but i made the point badly. 12 minutes ago, Vive_La_Villa said: The blame for all of this is the government in my opinion. Not the people. Media too. 1 minute ago, Mic09 said: I am very much anti EU as a political project, however the 'population control' argument is silly in my eyes. It just feels like those lazy arguments in the shape of 'get it over with' or 'brexiteers are racist'. Massively false equivalence. The common argument is 'all racists voted to leave' not vice versa. And it's nowhere near as widespread as 'get Brexit done' which is the tagline of the governing party. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StefanAVFC Posted October 23, 2019 Share Posted October 23, 2019 2 minutes ago, Demitri_C said: As @StefanAVFC said earlier why are the immigrants in the eu any different from the ones that come here outside from the eu? As long as they come here to work and better the country and themselves thats all that matters. It's not that they're different in the ways you state, but EU immigrants are a net benefit (even more so than Uk citizens) on our economy, so voting to leave and ergo have less of them (and potentially more non-EU) is misguided at best and stupid at worst Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Demitri_C Posted October 23, 2019 Share Posted October 23, 2019 4 minutes ago, StefanAVFC said: It's not that they're different in the ways you state, but EU immigrants are a net benefit (even more so than Uk citizens) on our economy, so voting to leave and ergo have less of them (and potentially more non-EU) is misguided at best and stupid at worst I agree that controlled immigration is good as they do a lot of wonderful things for example alot of consultants I work with in his come from eu and outside. Some of them are fantastic doctors. I' use to work with a load of eastern Europeans that came from Poland and Albania. They were brilliant people and a pleasure to work with. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vive_La_Villa Posted October 23, 2019 Share Posted October 23, 2019 11 minutes ago, Demitri_C said: To be fair to @brommy He hasn't said he shares that view so I don't feel the need for educate him on immigrants as we know there is positives and negatives with anything in life. As @StefanAVFC said earlier why are the immigrants in the eu any different from the ones that come here outside from the eu? As long as they come here to work and better the country and themselves thats all that matters. Yippee another election just what this country needs. I'm voting lib dems as they are only party who have said they will revoke brexit. Immigrants from outside of Europe don’t get papers to work here so have to work illegally. But since EU expansion they don’t get illegal work either. There was massive homeless crisis of non Eu illegal immigrants in West London a few years back. So ironically EU expansion actually lead to a lot more revenue for the Government due to the massive increase of work through the books. It was the non-eu workers that lost out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HanoiVillan Posted October 23, 2019 Share Posted October 23, 2019 26 minutes ago, Mic09 said: I wonder what Labour's manifesto will say about the referendum though! You don't have to wonder. Labour's policy is, and remains, to renegotiate the Political Declaration to a 'softer' form of Brexit, and then submit that to a confirmatory referendum against Remain. I assume that Burgon, in this interview (which I didn't hear), is presumably making the correct point that there aren't enough MPs prepared to back a second referemdum amendment on the Withdrawal Bill. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post StefanAVFC Posted October 23, 2019 Popular Post Share Posted October 23, 2019 36 minutes ago, StefanAVFC said: In a parliament containing Nadine Dorries, James Cleverley and Andrea Leadsom, he is probably the thickest MP out there. 5 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bickster Posted October 23, 2019 Moderator Share Posted October 23, 2019 40 minutes ago, StefanAVFC said: In a parliament containing Nadine Dorries, James Cleverley and Andrea Leadsom, he is probably the thickest MP out there. Some bloke with a Polish surname says hi 2 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dodgyknees Posted October 23, 2019 Share Posted October 23, 2019 I've blocked and muted a lot of political/Brexit words on Twitter, it's all pissing me off too much. The 19 Labour MPs, Johnson, the BBC, Farage, all of it - it's pissing me off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snowychap Posted October 23, 2019 Share Posted October 23, 2019 5 hours ago, brommy said: Emphasis is lost in overuse. It's a good job I didn't overuse anything then. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Demitri_C Posted October 23, 2019 Share Posted October 23, 2019 45 minutes ago, HanoiVillan said: You don't have to wonder. Labour's policy is, and remains, to renegotiate the Political Declaration to a 'softer' form of Brexit, and then submit that to a confirmatory referendum against Remain. I assume that Burgon, in this interview (which I didn't hear), is presumably making the correct point that there aren't enough MPs prepared to back a second referemdum amendment on the Withdrawal Bill. I don't even think Labour know their own policies let alone the voters. I think you will see the vote for libs and brexit party will go up forcing another hung parliament and back to square one. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snowychap Posted October 23, 2019 Share Posted October 23, 2019 My guess is extension granted (that stops early the first of the month if/when the agreement is ratified) and then the bill fails on third reading when any amendment preventing no deal is voted through as the ERG then withdraw their support. Election to follow that and it's possible it won't be until end of Feb/March next year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Demitri_C Posted October 23, 2019 Share Posted October 23, 2019 1 minute ago, snowychap said: My guess is extension granted (that stops early the first of the month if/when the agreement is ratified) and then the bill fails on third reading when any amendment preventing no deal is voted through as the ERG then withdraw their support. Election to follow that and it's possible it won't be until end of Feb/March next year. Thats how I see it also snowy. Surely though unless your dying for brexit as any cost any voting would vote lib dems as only party promising to revoke brexit. No matter what deal any party gets it will be shit so on that basis we should stay so vote lib dem if your not happy with the currently handling if brexit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chindie Posted October 23, 2019 VT Supporter Share Posted October 23, 2019 The Lib Dems aren't going to get the majority they want to revoke, so voting for them is rolling the dice as to what they ultimately end up doing in parliament. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sam-AVFC Posted October 23, 2019 Share Posted October 23, 2019 30 minutes ago, Demitri_C said: Surely though unless your dying for brexit as any cost any voting would vote lib dems as only party promising to revoke brexit. My stance on this is that I think a 2nd referendum is the only way to move towards healing rifts. It is also the best way to shut down any 'will of the people' arguments once all is said and done. That, plus what Chindie just said. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sne Posted October 23, 2019 Share Posted October 23, 2019 Speaking of EU-immigrants... 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peterms Posted October 23, 2019 Share Posted October 23, 2019 2 hours ago, StefanAVFC said: In a parliament containing Nadine Dorries, James Cleverley and Andrea Leadsom, he is probably the thickest MP out there. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dodgyknees Posted October 23, 2019 Share Posted October 23, 2019 31 minutes ago, Sam-AVFC said: My stance on this is that I think a 2nd referendum is the only way to move towards healing rifts. It is also the best way to shut down any 'will of the people' arguments once all is said and done. That, plus what Chindie just said. I'm not sure a 2nd referendum does that, if remain wins then it'll become a best of 3. I was chatting with some friends the other day and I came up with an idea - which I don't think is realistic, but hey. Give the three main parties the chance to discuss an exit with the EU, and each of those parties then put their deal and remain into an election (it's too complicated thus not realistic). Then whatever party wins will be tasked with a new referendum based on their leave deal and remain in a referendum. Too complicated. I just think it gives options then, and a pathway towards ending this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StefanAVFC Posted October 23, 2019 Share Posted October 23, 2019 (edited) 1 hour ago, bickster said: Some bloke with a Polish surname says hi It's treason then Quote My plea to the Polish PM: Please veto an Article 50 extension and help us get Brexit done Nail on head here: Edited October 23, 2019 by StefanAVFC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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