ml1dch Posted January 15, 2019 Share Posted January 15, 2019 1 minute ago, Genie said: Is there a point when we must have deal voted through or can it go through at 1 minute before midnight like transfer deadline day? If that happens, we'll have left 59 minutes beforehand. Although with the competence shown by this Government, I wouldn't rule that out. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ml1dch Posted January 15, 2019 Share Posted January 15, 2019 2 minutes ago, snowychap said: Parliament can't reject No Deal as an option unless it legislates to revoke A50 and sorts out 'Exit day' in the legislation (it may require more, I can't remember). Full repeal of the EU Withdrawal Act I would assume (which has Exit Day contained within), given it has received Royal Assent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snowychap Posted January 15, 2019 Share Posted January 15, 2019 2 minutes ago, ml1dch said: Full repeal of the EU Withdrawal Act I would assume (which has Exit Day contained within), given it has received Royal Assent. Could they just adjust Exit Day to 2099 like when people used to do lazy data entry? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
a m ole Posted January 15, 2019 Share Posted January 15, 2019 29 minutes ago, Genie said: Is there a point when we must have deal voted through or can it go through at 1 minute before midnight like transfer deadline day? Depends if the fax goes through and the EU haven’t taken Januszaj on loan 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dAVe80 Posted January 15, 2019 Share Posted January 15, 2019 Well this is all going splendidly well.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sidcow Posted January 15, 2019 VT Supporter Share Posted January 15, 2019 2 hours ago, brommy said: Of the 432 MPs voting against the government tonight, I wonder what the split is between those who see the deal as a betrayal of brexit and those who think they can push no brexit ahead of a no-deal brexit? This is the problem. People voted for Brexit not having any idea what Brexit was. Some want full and total severance with Europe and had absolutely intention of any kind of half way house. Others voted out because they bought the line (which WAS regularly and repeatedly trotted out by Brexiteers) that we could leave and get a great deal which maintained most of the benefits. Neither of these factions would have voted for what the other half want and neither in isolation would have got anywhere a near a majority. Brexit was voted on as a general concept which was a mistake. It's very stupid, but also very easy to vote for something when you don't really know what it is. I know many people who regret voting out now they have realised that we can't in fact have our cake and eat it and the reality of what's on offer is hitting home. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ml1dch Posted January 15, 2019 Share Posted January 15, 2019 3 minutes ago, sidcow said: I know many people who regret voting out now they have realised that we can't in fact have our cake and eat it and the reality of what's on offer is hitting home. I'd bet a lot of money that they are outnumbered by the people who are absolutely positive that this is only going badly due to the treacherous Remainers who have sabotaged their glorious freedom. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post OutByEaster? Posted January 15, 2019 Moderator Popular Post Share Posted January 15, 2019 "EU citizens here and UK citizens in the EU deserve clarity as soon as possible" said a woman who had just massively lost a vote she'd deliberately delayed for a month. 6 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davkaus Posted January 15, 2019 Share Posted January 15, 2019 (edited) 3 minutes ago, OutByEaster? said: "EU citizens here and UK citizens in the EU deserve clarity as soon as possible" said a woman who had just massively lost a vote she'd deliberately delayed for a month. Same woman insisting that the will of the people must be respected, and that's why the people must not be consulted on the deal. "Look, you said you'd rather have food than not have food. It turns out the only food we can negotiate is a shit sandwich, now eat it. It's what you voted for. No you can't vote again". Edited January 15, 2019 by Davkaus Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bickster Posted January 15, 2019 Moderator Share Posted January 15, 2019 It's Corbyn's next move that is the more interesting. If he loses, as we all expect, the VONC, that's his hopes of a General Election well and truly dashed. He now has to move on to the next stage in his masterplan (yes that's sarcastic). It'll be an absolute steaming pile of unicorn excrement but interesting nonetheless. Hasn't he just said that he doesn't think May can get a better deal without saying why he thinks he can? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sidcow Posted January 15, 2019 VT Supporter Share Posted January 15, 2019 (edited) 2 hours ago, Chindie said: It's astounding a PM can lose a vote on a deal that she is indelibly tied to, by an historic degree, and not resign. Losing a vote that effectively defines them should be a resigning matter, losing it by an astounding degree should be resignation without a second thought. Absurd. This is what makes me laugh though. Every single commentator calls it May's deal. For 2 and a half years are we to suppose May has been sat in a room with Europe personally making offers and counter offers? What has happened is for 2 and a half years is large groups of highly educated civil servants all probably Oxford and Cambridge graduates, some of the finest minds and most talented negotiators this country have produced are the ones who will have been working full time on this since the beginning. May just happens to be the Prime Minister who is in power when those talanted people have come up with the best deal they have been able to do in the circumstances. Has anyone actually thought that she's thrown her weight fully behind this because she 100% believes it's the best deal we can negotiate. She is after all much closer to what's gone one and has far more insight than you or me and certainly than Corbyn or Farage. The people who have got this far are not a bunch of buffoons. Everyone talks about a better deal but with no evidence one is available. If our finest negotiators have come up with this why do people keep saying it's been badly negotiated? Why would these people deliberately negotiate badly? I've never met a professional who has risen to the top in business who does anything other than ruthlessly aim for the very best deal they can get. It's just such an easy thing to say that's it's been badly negotiated and they could do better. Who are these mysterious people who are suddenly going to be parachuted in and save the day? I just want to know what's in it for May to put forward a deal which is deliberately crap? Edited January 15, 2019 by sidcow Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sidcow Posted January 15, 2019 VT Supporter Share Posted January 15, 2019 4 minutes ago, bickster said: Hasn't he just said that he doesn't think May can get a better deal without saying why he thinks he can? I think this paraphrases my above post much more succinctly. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Demitri_C Posted January 15, 2019 Share Posted January 15, 2019 Corbyn is as useless as may. Either way we are totally and utterly screwed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ml1dch Posted January 15, 2019 Share Posted January 15, 2019 5 minutes ago, sidcow said: It's just such an easy thing to say that's it's been badly negotiated and they could do better. Who are these mysterious people who are suddenly going to be parachuted in and save the day? I don't think that anybody who has been following this closely thinks there is anything more available within the constraints that she has set. From the very beginning it was a decision of deciding how much "control" we wanted back, weighed up against how much economic prosperity we were happy to sacrifice to get it. She decided on "quite a lot" and "quite a lot". Other principles if they were in charge might decide "not much" and "not much". 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snowychap Posted January 15, 2019 Share Posted January 15, 2019 (edited) 12 minutes ago, sidcow said: May just happens to be the Prime Minister who is in power when those talanted people have come up with the best deal they have been able to do in the circumstances. They haven't been given free rein to negotiate whatever they can get and then bring it back to May saying, "Here, you are." Parameters (red lines) have been set by May. Edited January 15, 2019 by snowychap 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sidcow Posted January 15, 2019 VT Supporter Share Posted January 15, 2019 2 minutes ago, ml1dch said: I don't think that anybody who has been following this closely thinks there is anything more available within the constraints that she has set. From the very beginning it was a decision of deciding how much "control" we wanted back, weighed up against how much economic prosperity we were happy to sacrifice to get it. She decided on "quite a lot" and "quite a lot". Other principles if they were in charge might decide "not much" and "not much". Well yes, she's tried to crack on with what the good British public voted for. If you left control with Europe she would be crucified for ignoring her remit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snowychap Posted January 15, 2019 Share Posted January 15, 2019 Also, hasn't Olly Bobbins been doing a huge amount of the negotiation in the last six months? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markavfc40 Posted January 15, 2019 Share Posted January 15, 2019 11 minutes ago, sidcow said: This is what makes me laugh though. Every single commentator calls it May's deal. For 2 and a half years are we to suppose May has been sat in a room with Europe personally making offers and counter offers? What has happened is for 2 and a half years is large groups of highly educated civil servants all probably Oxford and Cambridge graduates, some of the finest minds and most talented negotiators this country have produced are the ones who will have been working full time on this since the beginning. May just happens to be the Prime Minister who is in power when those talanted people have come up with the best deal they have been able to do in the circumstances. Has anyone actually thought that she's thrown her weight fully behind this because she 100% believes it's the best deal we can negotiate. She is after all much closer to what's gone one and has far more insight than you or me and certainly than Corbyn or Farage. The people who have got this far are not a bunch of buffoons. Everyone talks about a better deal but with no evidence one is available. If our finest negotiators have come up with this why do people keep saying it's been badly negotiated? Why would these people deliberately negotiate badly? I've never met a professional who has risen to the top in business who does anything other than ruthlessly aim for the very best deal they can You do realise these negotiators have had to negotiate a deal having entered the room with a number of red lines put in place by May? They never had a free hand. The reason this deal is so poor is due to those red lines. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sidcow Posted January 15, 2019 VT Supporter Share Posted January 15, 2019 3 minutes ago, snowychap said: They haven't been given free rein to negotiate whatever they can get and then bring it back to May saying, "Here, you are." Parameters (red lines) have been set by May. Ah, so someone else will go in now and negotiate a deal where we have almost no redlines and all the politicians will be 100% behind this and rush it through parliament. I see now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisp65 Posted January 15, 2019 Share Posted January 15, 2019 I would doubt very much that May has allowed the civil servants any free thought in the negotiations. Of course, her lack of imagination means they've had quite a tricky job. She's not lucky, she's not a strategist, she's not liked, she's not feared. Yet, she's the best the tories have. The alternative is a party that won't tell us what they'd do differently. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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