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The now-enacted will of (some of) the people


blandy

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3 minutes ago, Stevo985 said:

I still have many friends at JLR, and it obviously does.

You'll need to let the Brexiteers know because clearly it doesn't. You see there's other problems the company has and that negates Brexit.

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13 minutes ago, bickster said:

reliability has gone to pot,

Unforgivable really given the advances in technology both in car design and car build practices in the last few decades especially in the JLR target market.  4x4's are the one type of car you don't want to breakdown as you might not be near a road.

Skoda are now one of the most reliable cars in thebUK so JLR need to have a look at themselves.

 

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32 minutes ago, Amsterdam_Neil_D said:

Unforgivable really given the advances in technology both in car design and car build practices in the last few decades especially in the JLR target market.  4x4's are the one type of car you don't want to breakdown as you might not be near a road.

Skoda are now one of the most reliable cars in thebUK so JLR need to have a look at themselves.

 

From what workers there tell me, under the old owners if something wasn't 100% up to standard on the line, the car got pulled and fixed properly, now its a case of bodge it on the line

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22 minutes ago, bickster said:

From what workers there tell me, under the old owners if something wasn't 100% up to standard on the line, the car got pulled and fixed properly, now its a case of bodge it on the line

Reliability was a much bigger problem when Ford were in charge so I doubt that's true, especially as reliability increased when Tata took over to my recollection.

Although reliability does seem to have suffered again recently so something is obviously wrong. I highly doubt that it's an instruction from Tata to bodge quality issues though, especially as Tata are incredibly hands off anyway.

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1 hour ago, Stevo985 said:

Reliability was a much bigger problem when Ford were in charge so I doubt that's true, especially as reliability increased when Tata took over to my recollection.

Although reliability does seem to have suffered again recently so something is obviously wrong. I highly doubt that it's an instruction from Tata to bodge quality issues though, especially as Tata are incredibly hands off anyway.

Only going from what various people who I've been picking up / dropping off there to / from work have either said to me or to other people whilst in my car

 

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Just now, bickster said:

Only going from what various people who I've been picking up / dropping off there to / from work have either said to me or to other people whilst in my car

Fair enough, but I still doubt it's true. I know plenty of people at various levels of the business, including the production line and I've never heard anything like that.

That's before you even consider that it doesn't really make any sense.

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1 hour ago, Chindie said:

I'm sure Brexit has absolutely no bearing on JLR's decision.

There’s a whole world of difference between saying Brexit is a factor and saying 5000 jobs  “It's not like they've not warned everyone.”

 

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Yes.

But while the Brexit fantasists are leaping to diminish the effect of Brexit in the decision, others not so myopic listen to the business who says things are bad but Brexit is making it worse and accept that the company knows, and has said, that the Brexit idiocy is bad.

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1 hour ago, bickster said:

There's another reason JLR is struggling if we're being honest. Since it changed hands, reliability has gone to pot, they've changed practices on the assembly line apparently.

aren't most of the issues on range rovers non engine electrical related rather than assembly line  ? The Tesla model S is deemed the most unreliable car on the road so don't know if it points to technology issues as well ? bleeding edge technology and a learning curve  rather than the fundamental this is how you put a car together issues  ?

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7 minutes ago, tonyh29 said:

aren't most of the issues on range rovers non engine electrical related rather than assembly line  ? The Tesla model S is deemed the most unreliable car on the road so don't know if it points to technology issues as well ? bleeding edge technology and a learning curve  rather than the fundamental this is how you put a car together issues  ?

I know the gear-boxes are dreadful on the Evoque and the flywheel is less reliable than the one in a Mk3 Mondeo (which was beyond dreadful)

EDIT: and a quick google suggests the Evoque has had 8 recalls already! and came 23rd out of 25 in its class for reliability

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3 hours ago, tonyh29 said:

Slovakia that JLR announced in 2015 before the Brexit vote was announced in Feb 2016   .. if only they could have used that crystal ball on the China market 

Re “low volume electric cars “ There are predictions that 60% of car sales will be electric by 2030 ...

 

* usual rules apply regarding predictions 

Cameron promised the people a chance to have their say in January 2013, if the Tories won the election, they won the next election in May 2015 . JLR announced Slovakia in December 2015 

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2 hours ago, bickster said:

There's another reason JLR is struggling if we're being honest. Since it changed hands, reliability has gone to pot, they've changed practices on the assembly line apparently.

Yes, their cars are unreliable as all hell.  I should know, I'm currently on my 6th one.  Not for much longer though, it's beset with niggly problems that you just don't get with other manufacturers.   Pieces of crap, that are largely down to the management structure and workforce on the ground not all buying into the same vision.

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1 minute ago, Chindie said:

Yes.

But while the Brexit fantasists are leaping to diminish the effect of Brexit in the decision, others not so myopic listen to the business who says things are bad but Brexit is making it worse and accept that the company knows, and has said, that the Brexit idiocy is bad.

with respect I don't think you can acknowledge you gave a one sided pov and then accuse the other side of being myopic  ...

in the case of JLR , Tata have announced  a £2.5 billion cost-saving programme world wide , their stock has been relegated to "junk " status due to loses , their CFO told analysts that China has driven the sharp deterioration in profits and "It’s the single biggest challenge” ..  other challenges are  excess capacity in JLR’s expanding production network  ,  the i-Pace’s margins are lower than fuel driven cars ,  sales are declining  , Trump has threatened tariffs on European cars , Quality ( see other posts) and yes uncertainty over Brexit , particularly in the event of No deal    ..however even without Brexit many an analyst was predicting Castle Bromwich would be a shopping centre  in 5 years as the site is too small and production is cheaper elsewhere

JLR I'm sure could do without the headache of Brexit but it's small in relation to their other problems

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3 hours ago, tonyh29 said:

Not to mention 90% of JLR sales are diesel and there has been a decline in this area 

This is an odd one, maybe I'm missing something. But if I'm thinking of buying a new landy,  then if I'm put off diesel, I'd buy a petrol one or a lecky one. 

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16 minutes ago, tinker said:

Cameron promised the people a chance to have their say in January 2013, if the Tories won the election, they won the next election in May 2015 . JLR announced Slovakia in December 2015 

you can't seriously believe JLR moved to Slovakia on the back of a 2013 promise from Cameron ....   Tony Blair  promised the people a referendum in 2007 in his election manifesto  , surely JLR  would have been making plans for Slovakia then on that logic ? 

 

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2 minutes ago, tonyh29 said:

you can't seriously believe JLR moved to Slovakia on the back of a 2013 promise from Cameron ....   Tony Blair  promised the people a referendum in 2007 in his election manifesto  , surely JLR  would have been making plans for Slovakia then on that logic ? 

 

It was owned by Ford in 2007

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1 minute ago, tonyh29 said:

with respect I don't think you can acknowledge you gave a one sided pov and then accuse the other side of being myopic  ...

in the case of JLR , Tata have announced  a £2.5 billion cost-saving programme world wide , their stock has been relegated to "junk " status due to loses , their CFO told analysts that China has driven the sharp deterioration in profits and "It’s the single biggest challenge” ..  other challenges are  excess capacity in JLR’s expanding production network  ,  the i-Pace’s margins are lower than fuel driven cars ,  sales are declining  , Trump has threatened tariffs on European cars , Quality ( see other posts) and yes uncertainty over Brexit , particularly in the event of No deal    ..however even without Brexit many an analyst was predicting Castle Bromwich would be a shopping centre  in 5 years as the site is too small and production is cheaper elsewhere

JLR I'm sure could do without the headache of Brexit but it's small in relation to their other problems

Where did I say there weren't other issues?

What is there to say that without Brexit the decision wouldn't be as bad? Perhaps there would be less job losses (however small), etc? JLR themselves acknowledge Brexit is part of a perfect storm of issues, and have spent months telling everyone who will listen that Brexit will harm the business, as part of a chorus of nearly every other business that isn't part of the small group that directly benefit from it.

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15 minutes ago, bickster said:

It was owned by Ford in 2007

if Tata had the foresight of a Brexit referendum and moved to Slovakia before it was announced  , i'm sure they had the foresight to know they would be buying it from Ford at some point :P

 

 

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3 hours ago, Chindie said:

Where did I say there weren't other issues?

tbf I guess I've put words in your mouth there based on you saying

Quote

Jaguar Land Rover cutting 5,000 jobs.

It's not like they've not warned everyone

in a Brexit thread and in the absence of any mention of other factors I've kinda come up with 2+2 = 5000 jobs lost due to Brexit

to an extent I think we are both acknowledging the same thing(s) just looking at it from different myopic views :)

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37 minutes ago, blandy said:

This is an odd one, maybe I'm missing something. But if I'm thinking of buying a new landy,  then if I'm put off diesel, I'd buy a petrol one or a lecky one. 

I'm only going with reasons being cited by financial . / automotive  commentators etc  ... Unite also accused the government of destroying the car industry be "demonising diesel "  .. like you , I sorta shouted at the radio then build  an alternative car instead 

I suppose it could be that if 90% demand was diesel they haven't 't built / can't supply enough petrol versions   , it could be that with electric other manufacturers  offer a version  already  , though I don't think you'd be in a showroom saying shall i get the Range Rover SV Autobiography or a Prius  , could be that the premium cost on electric / hybrid cars means you might hold on a year before making a decision ..dunno 

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