The now-enacted will of (some of) the people

[HanoiVillan]

Obviously not when someone's killed, because they already have been. 

EDIT: In response to 'when does it end?' in the previous post. Damn page-break. Damn laziness. 

Edited January 7, 2019 by HanoiVillan

[ml1dch]

1 hour ago, wazzap24 said:

 

 

Same little bell-end here virtually having a nervous breakdown because someone he doesn't like happens to be wearing a hi-vis vest for cycling in.

 

 

[OutByEaster?]

10 hours ago, snowychap said:

Without knowing the detail of what has been actually agreed to and with whom, I think we ought to be a little skeptical on what we accept from news reports and directly from the mouth of the Prime Minister and what we thus assume to be the case for the future.

I agree entirely. 

This line in the article didn't pass without note either: 

Quote

Speaking in Cape Town, the prime minister announced an additional £4bn of UK investment in African economies, with the hope of further match investment from the private sector to come.

That'll help protect that £2.4b of exports.

 

 

[OutByEaster?]

I love that the most anti-European right wing man in the country hates the appropriation by cyclists of a symbol he doesn't seem to realise he's stolen from the French left.

"You don't represent that!"

"Vous ne représentez pas cela"

Ecouter et répéter!

 

 

 

[peterms]

Just following up on the earlier discusion on sheepmeat, this thread is informative.  It seems that 94% of our exports of this go to the EU, and their tariff would make it hard to sell our product.  So we may need to dig out those old recipes for unappealing bits of sheep arse and lips and things rather quicker than we thought.

 

[peterms]

The tweet by Mr Harris makes a decent point.  Victorian entrepreneurs may have been exploitative shits, happy to condemn people to quick or long deaths from creating profits for them to confiscate, and they may have been often crowd-minded about investment trends and too optimistic about the chance of quick profits for adding no value, but they were pretty good at logistics and putting in place the mechanics of making things happen.  What they would have made of the current arrangements about brexit makes me wish for a time machine, to get their direct observations.

 

[HanoiVillan]

2 hours ago, OutByEaster? said:

I love that the most anti-European right wing man in the country hates the appropriation by cyclists of a symbol he doesn't seem to realise he's stolen from the French left.

"You don't represent that!"

"Vous ne représentez pas cela"

Ecouter et répéter!

Gotta say, they don't strike me as very 'left'. 

[tonyh29]

12 minutes ago, HanoiVillan said:

Gotta say, they don't strike me as very 'left'. 

Violence and trashing the capital ... sounds very typically left to me

 

 

[peterms]

42 minutes ago, HanoiVillan said:

Gotta say, they don't strike me as very 'left'. 

No, they're not.  Seems to be a cross-party movement which various groups will be trying to link to, but probably more le Pen voters than leftists, at a guess.  But probably people from many parties and none will be involved.

[snowychap]

3 hours ago, peterms said:

old recipes for unappealing bits of sheep arse and lips

Are you talking about the Prime Minister?

Edited January 7, 2019 by snowychap

[peterms]

40 minutes ago, snowychap said:

Are you talking about the Prime Minister?

Sir, I would not be so bold.

[snowychap]

13 hours ago, wazzap24 said:

It was more a comment around the extreme pro-Brexit factions ( The 'New EDL', Britain First and various others). The ones screaming 'Traitors /Enemies of the people' at anybody questioning the madness. *

You are right about Vote Leave being more organised etc as a whole, as tonight's Brexit drama with Benedictine Cumonmysnatch will show. 

*Edit: Extreme like yer man here. 

 

The problem now, though, is that you've got MPs writing collectively to the police demanding that they 'do something' and Ministers (such as Hancock) also calling for things to be done.

It'll likely lead to further restrictions about what can happen within a mile or more of Parliament and it has allowed other politicians like Lucy Powell to yet again push her pet project about online anonymity.

However unpleasant the scenes that we've seen on our tv and social media yesterday (and at other times) are, I don't like the speed to which people have been jumping to demand that these things are dealt with as criminal matters.

The idea that calling an MP a nazi ought to have repercussions from the police isn't great, in my view.

[bickster]

1 hour ago, snowychap said:

The problem now, though, is that you've got MPs writing collectively to the police demanding that they 'do something' and Ministers (such as Hancock) also calling for things to be done.

It'll likely lead to further restrictions about what can happen within a mile or more of Parliament and it has allowed other politicians like Lucy Powell to yet again push her pet project about online anonymity.

However unpleasant the scenes that we've seen on our tv and social media yesterday (and at other times) are, I don't like the speed to which people have been jumping to demand that these things are dealt with as criminal matters.

The idea that calling an MP a nazi ought to have repercussions from the police isn't great, in my view.

 

100% Correct, it is typically British though. A kneejerk reaction without thinking through the eventual consequences moving into the future. This is outrageous, let's legislate and sod the consequences.

Do laws currently exist to deal with the situation that occurred yesterday? I'd suggest they probably do, except we have a police force whose role keeps getting messed with both financially and directionally by politicians

They reap what they sow really

There's also clear evidence of incitement in the original tweet shown of that bellend, arrest him, put him before the courts, lets at least see what current laws are capable of. And yes I realise that makes him a martyr but I'd rather that than any new freedom removing law for the rest of society

Keep on highlighting what a twunt he is and he'll soon trip himself up, he isn't that clever. On top of that Soubry et al should apply for a restraining order and every politician that gets hassled like that should do the same, individually, Every new court case is time off the streets in his yellow vest

[Wainy316]

I have to laugh when the right think they are the ones rebelling against the establishment.  The 'liberal elite' as they call them.

It's totally lost on them that the 'elite' and the mainstream media are all on their side.  Morons.

[bickster]

4 minutes ago, Wainy316 said:

I have to laugh when the right think they are the ones rebelling against the establishment.  The 'liberal elite' as they call them.

It's totally lost on them that the 'elite' and the mainstream media are all on their side.  Morons.

That is firmly in the hands of Gove and Johnson, thing is, who gave them the notion in the first place

[Genie]

3 hours ago, snowychap said:

The problem now, though, is that you've got MPs writing collectively to the police demanding that they 'do something' and Ministers (such as Hancock) also calling for things to be done.

It'll likely lead to further restrictions about what can happen within a mile or more of Parliament and it has allowed other politicians like Lucy Powell to yet again push her pet project about online anonymity.

However unpleasant the scenes that we've seen on our tv and social media yesterday (and at other times) are, I don't like the speed to which people have been jumping to demand that these things are dealt with as criminal matters.

The idea that calling an MP a nazi ought to have repercussions from the police isn't great, in my view.

If Police are under pressure to "act" then no doubt it'll lead to physical confrontations and scuffles which is exactly what these people want. It'll be billed as having their free speech suppressed blah blah blah.

[bickster]

38 minutes ago, Genie said:

If Police are under pressure to "act" then no doubt it'll lead to physical confrontations and scuffles which is exactly what these people want. It'll be billed as having their free speech suppressed blah blah blah.

Good, let's have the public debate that will be a result of that

[peterms]

4 hours ago, snowychap said:

The idea that calling an MP a nazi ought to have repercussions from the police isn't great, in my view.

I agree calling an MP a nazi shouldn't evoke a police response, but I think the concern about what is shown in those clips and others is not about calling someone a nazi, more about the air of intimidation and threat caused by the behaviour.  Getting a group of people to surround someone and shout at them as they walk along a street is physically threatening, where heckling or shouting insults from a distance isn't.  When the same people engaging in this deliberate physical intimidation make comments about a war, and police being fair game, and when they are far right groups who evoke the language of betrayal of the nation, it must be hard for someone like Soubry not to think about Jo Cox and the connection between this kind of behaviour and legitimising in the minds of some people actual physical attacks on people who are claimed to have engaged in an act of "betrayal".

The notion of betrayal is one that has been deliberately milked by some people.  Johnson, for example, has said it on several occasions, most recently less than a month ago.  I think some other politicians have challenged the use of such terms, and have made the connection between this and making some people feel justified in what most would see as unacceptable behaviour, but I don't think the challenge has been firm enough or widespread enough.

 

.

[snowychap]

25 minutes ago, peterms said:

I agree calling an MP a nazi shouldn't evoke a police response, but I think the concern about what is shown in those clips and others is not about calling someone a nazi, more about the air of intimidation and threat caused by the behaviour.  Getting a group of people to surround someone and shout at them as they walk along a street is physically threatening, where heckling or shouting insults from a distance isn't.

Is that the concern? It may be your genuine concern but I don't think it's much more than a largely manufactured concern by those politicians and commentators from whom I've heard in the last 24 hours.

Was that the concern when other politicians and political figures have had to deal with similar things? With some it may have been but with the vast majority it wasn't.

This is being presented as something new and 'astonishing' and so on. Is it really? Don't we remember politicians being egged, jostled, shouted at, abused, booed, surrounded, called all sorts of names by the public happening before?

And where I have a particular difficulty is with politicians claiming that it's a terrible and new state of affairs from their seats (or rather perhaps standing) in a place where the most boorish, unpleasant, antagonistic behaviour passes as routine.

I do think the continual reference to the horrible event of Jo Cox's murder is not helpful, either.

[LondonLax]

23 minutes ago, snowychap said:

Is that the concern? It may be your genuine concern but I don't think it's much more than a largely manufactured concern by those politicians and commentators from whom I've heard in the last 24 hours.

Was that the concern when other politicians and political figures have had to deal with similar things? With some it may have been but with the vast majority it wasn't.

This is being presented as something new and 'astonishing' and so on. Is it really? Don't we remember politicians being egged, jostled, shouted at, abused, booed, surrounded, called all sorts of names by the public happening before?

And where I have a particular difficulty is with politicians claiming that it's a terrible and new state of affairs from their seats (or rather perhaps standing) in a place where the most boorish, unpleasant, antagonistic behaviour passes as routine.

I do think the continual reference to the horrible event of Jo Cox's murder is not helpful, either.

Surely the murder of an MP over this issue fundamentally changes the dynamic for other MPs dealing with this abuse compared with abuse you reference in the past.