Popular Post wazzap24 Posted January 5, 2019 Popular Post Share Posted January 5, 2019 45 minutes ago, tonyh29 said: I’m of the view that we are one of the biggest economies , we have our own currency , countries do want to trade with us and we have a great chance of making a success of it. Genuine question/thought on this. Not just directed at you, but I have seen this 'one of the worlds biggest economy' arguments from quite a few pro-leave people and on the face of it, I can kinda see where they are coming from. BUT Isn't one of the reasons we are a 'big economy' down the fact we are in the EU, but with our own currency etc? If we leave and a lot of companies (financial sector in particular, plus companies like Nissan, Honda etc) decide to move out because of no deal/crap deal/any deal that isn't remaining (appreciate they may not, but it seems a reasonable outcome?), then surely our economy would be severely weakened? I can't see how we will continue to punch at the weight we do now, as a lot of our GDP will be as a result of our status within the EU? One of my biggest concerns is, this will all unravel pretty quickly once we leave and we will be much weaker when trying to negotiate these unicorn trade deals nutters like JR-Mongchops keep banging on about? 8 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bickster Posted January 5, 2019 Moderator Share Posted January 5, 2019 1 hour ago, tonyh29 said: there are “we want our country back” people out there , but there are also a lot of people who have made informed decisions as to why they want to leave and it didn’t involve goose stepping down the high street The we want our country back types far far far outweigh the ideological leaver from my own empirical evidence. In fact I can only think of one ideological leaver that I know, all the other fall into the we want our country back idiot-type The goose-stepping down the high street is a consequence of all this though isn't it. I've been on two anti-fascist demonstrations in the last few months and come the spring when it's warmed up for the little Nazi shitheads I fully expect to go on a few more 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wazzap24 Posted January 5, 2019 Share Posted January 5, 2019 Well if today's 'yellow vest UK' protests are anything to go by, I'm not sure they are going to stand much chance in the 'Civil War' they seem to think is coming If Brexit is stopped. Most of them couldn't organise a supervised visit with one of their estranged kids, let alone military action. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blandy Posted January 5, 2019 Author Moderator Share Posted January 5, 2019 3 hours ago, HanoiVillan said: My current working assumption is that no amendment proposing an alternative 'deal' will get a majority. This is based on no current view commanding majority support: That's fair, and supported by the stats. Mine is that (maybe more in hope than knowledge) there will be a coalescence towards an alternative, in the face of an imminent No deal outcome. My perception is that there is an overwhelming opposition to no deal, and therefore an alternative will come to the fore. It isn't May's deal, Therefore it will be something else. Like I say, Norway, or Referendum, or whatever. There's no time for leadership elections, general elections, so there will either be an alternative "quickie" off the shelf deal or the EU and the UK will consent to an extension of the 2 years, via a fudge, to get a mutually acceptable deal through. But it's just my reckoning. I might be wildly wrong. Something has to snap first. May and Corbyn are not minded to compromise on their one-eyed, flawed, party first, visions (yet). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheAuthority Posted January 5, 2019 VT Supporter Share Posted January 5, 2019 (edited) Dominic Cummings who ran the Leave campaign explains why leave won. Worth a watch. Clear & concise. Edited January 5, 2019 by TheAuthority Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tonyh29 Posted January 5, 2019 Share Posted January 5, 2019 2 hours ago, wazzap24 said: Genuine question/thought on this. Not just directed at you, but I have seen this 'one of the worlds biggest economy' arguments from quite a few pro-leave people and on the face of it, I can kinda see where they are coming from. BUT Isn't one of the reasons we are a 'big economy' down the fact we are in the EU, but with our own currency etc? If we leave and a lot of companies (financial sector in particular, plus companies like Nissan, Honda etc) decide to move out because of no deal/crap deal/any deal that isn't remaining (appreciate they may not, but it seems a reasonable outcome?), then surely our economy would be severely weakened? I can't see how we will continue to punch at the weight we do now, as a lot of our GDP will be as a result of our status within the EU? One of my biggest concerns is, this will all unravel pretty quickly once we leave and we will be much weaker when trying to negotiate these unicorn trade deals nutters like JR-Mongchops keep banging on about? The EU certainly made trade easier and would have helped our economy , whether it’s a defining factor in the size of our economy I couldn’t say , we after all could have tapped into other markets with less restrictions for example and we have and do have a lot to offer the world in terms of British goods and services the finance sector is as you say something we are dependant on ...it’s also something that Frankfurt et al don’t currently have the ability to take from us , hence why we haven’t seen the 100’s of thousand s of jobs exodus that was forecast the EU commission have already agreed to some no deal erm deals , airlines , haulage , banking for example (and Italy have also confirmed they will offer settlement status to U.K. citizens currently living in italy (Spain as well I believe ) ) .... these deals are only temporary but it does suggest tha the EU does acknowledge the mutual suicide that not having any deals represents ... that might give false hope to a no deal means we could then quickly get those unicorn agreements but an orderly withdrawal and then exploration of other deals shouldn’t be beyond us ... I don’t think it’s the end of young people’s future as they suggested 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevo985 Posted January 5, 2019 VT Supporter Share Posted January 5, 2019 41 minutes ago, TheAuthority said: Dominic Cummings who ran the Leave campaign explains why leave won. Worth a watch. Clear & concise. That HBO Brexit movie is on on Monday (in the UK). The one with Cumberbatch playing this guy Cummings. Should be interesting Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheAuthority Posted January 5, 2019 VT Supporter Share Posted January 5, 2019 16 minutes ago, Stevo985 said: That HBO Brexit movie is on on Monday (in the UK). The one with Cumberbatch playing this guy Cummings. Should be interesting Not available over here until the 20th unfortunately Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tonyh29 Posted January 5, 2019 Share Posted January 5, 2019 16 minutes ago, Stevo985 said: That HBO Brexit movie is on on Monday (in the UK). The one with Cumberbatch playing this guy Cummings. Should be interesting The write up I read said Cumberbatch would only do it if the script was balanced and not a leaver stitch up ( even though he is a remainer ) so hopefully it should be good viewing and not just a bus and gammon faced men shouting about Blue passpsorts Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Enda Posted January 6, 2019 Share Posted January 6, 2019 7 hours ago, tonyh29 said: The EU certainly made trade easier and would have helped our economy , whether it’s a defining factor in the size of our economy I couldn’t say , we after all could have tapped into other markets with less restrictions for example and we have and do have a lot to offer the world in terms of British goods and services the finance sector is as you say something we are dependant on ...it’s also something that Frankfurt et al don’t currently have the ability to take from us , hence why we haven’t seen the 100’s of thousand s of jobs exodus that was forecast the EU commission have already agreed to some no deal erm deals , airlines , haulage , banking for example (and Italy have also confirmed they will offer settlement status to U.K. citizens currently living in italy (Spain as well I believe ) ) .... these deals are only temporary but it does suggest tha the EU does acknowledge the mutual suicide that not having any deals represents ... that might give false hope to a no deal means we could then quickly get those unicorn agreements but an orderly withdrawal and then exploration of other deals shouldn’t be beyond us ... I don’t think it’s the end of young people’s future as they suggested Hi Tony. All fair and reasonable points you make, even if I think some of them are wrong. A lot of discussion around Brexit (and Trump and everything else in the world) has been stupidly divisive, so just a small note to say you're obviously a Brexit madman but at least you're a sensible one 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ml1dch Posted January 6, 2019 Share Posted January 6, 2019 I wonder if anybody would have thought back in summer 2016 that this is the achievement that the Government would be boasting about with 12 weeks to go. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amsterdam_Neil_D Posted January 6, 2019 Share Posted January 6, 2019 16 hours ago, wazzap24 said: Most of them couldn't organise a supervised visit with one of their estranged kids, let alone military action. Fair point but they did organise themselves to win the Referendum, in a perceived "Easy win" for remain the leavers still won. Yellow vests or clown outfits, they are currently winning. The Remain march the other week, brilliantly organised and got great numbers and was on the News & I thought it might change something, achieved nothing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bickster Posted January 6, 2019 Moderator Share Posted January 6, 2019 34 minutes ago, Amsterdam_Neil_D said: Fair point but they did organise themselves to win the Referendum, By breaking the law and with interference from foreign powers with a vested interest. 36 minutes ago, Amsterdam_Neil_D said: The Remain march the other week, brilliantly organised and got great numbers and was on the News & I thought it might change something, achieved nothing. yet 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amsterdam_Neil_D Posted January 6, 2019 Share Posted January 6, 2019 40 minutes ago, bickster said: By breaking the law and with interference from foreign powers with a vested interest. 100% Agreed but the result still stands and nobody should have been suprised that these methods were used. A fiddle was the ONLY way they could have won at the time as they did not have the numbers. The Tories beat themselves at their own game where their are no rules and winning at any cost is the only thing that matters. It seems Remain forgot their own guidelines. There is no debate or fairness in politics now, just who can shout the loudest IMO, Leave knew this, hence the bus etc. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Genie Posted January 6, 2019 Share Posted January 6, 2019 3 hours ago, bickster said: By breaking the law and with interference from foreign powers with a vested interest. Which is where the “remain” camp failed incredibly. They should have been robustly called out on all the lies, fake news, bull shit at the time. Even now the crap coming out of the leave side goes completely unchallenged which means people think it’s true. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amsterdam_Neil_D Posted January 6, 2019 Share Posted January 6, 2019 5 minutes ago, Genie said: They should have been robustly called out on all the lies, fake news, bull shit at the time. Before Social Media this would have worked and would have been the correct tactic. Now, not so sure. Social media will remove any stubborn facts and actuals from any conversation or your money back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Genie Posted January 6, 2019 Share Posted January 6, 2019 (edited) 7 minutes ago, Amsterdam_Neil_D said: Before Social Media this would have worked and would have been the correct tactic. Now, not so sure. Social media will remove any stubborn facts and actuals from any conversation or your money back. That bus could have been shot down quickly, “thanks Boris but we will absolutely not have an extra £350m per week for the NHS, it WILL NOT HAPPEN”. “We as a country predict we will be worse off than now so please don’t give this any consideration”. They could have repeated it over an over, but didn’t bother. Edited January 6, 2019 by Genie 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bickster Posted January 6, 2019 Moderator Share Posted January 6, 2019 18 minutes ago, Genie said: That bus could have been shot down quickly, “thanks Boris but we will absolutely not have an extra £350m per week for the NHS, it WILL NOT HAPPEN”. “We as a country predict we will be worse off than now so please don’t give this any consideration”. They could have repeated it over an over, but didn’t bother. Case in point, it was shot down from all angles and quite ferociously from day 1 except by the majority of the MSM who were pro-Brexit. Proof that if you repeat a lie often enough in this day and age, it becomes the truth, even though it's barkingly obvious to those with half a brain that it can't be true The rebuttal to the criticism was simply "Project fear again" Hell, we're living in an age where Boris and Gove can keep going on about elites with a straight face and people lap it up. There's a significant proportion of the population that cannot do critical thinking 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bickster Posted January 6, 2019 Moderator Share Posted January 6, 2019 note the relatively huge sample size of 25k This poll also suggests the 50% crossover point of Leave / Remain has now shifted from the 55+ age group to the 60+ which is quite a significant shift in 3 months or so 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mjmooney Posted January 6, 2019 VT Supporter Share Posted January 6, 2019 48 minutes ago, bickster said: note the relatively huge sample size of 25k This poll also suggests the 50% crossover point of Leave / Remain has now shifted from the 55+ age group to the 60+ which is quite a significant shift in 3 months or so I know I'm being a bit defensive as an over-60, but every single one of my friends in that age bracket is pro-remain. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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