bickster Posted October 10, 2018 Moderator Share Posted October 10, 2018 ”Traditionally seen as a confidence issue” Fixed Term Parliament Act ended that tradition 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snowychap Posted October 10, 2018 Share Posted October 10, 2018 44 minutes ago, bickster said: ”Traditionally seen as a confidence issue” Fixed Term Parliament Act ended that tradition I think that it was merely put in to demostrate how important the budget vote is not as an incorrect reflection of what parliamentary procedure is now. Elsewhere, I've seen it suggested that the DUP are threatening May and not the government. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bickster Posted October 10, 2018 Moderator Share Posted October 10, 2018 1 minute ago, snowychap said: Elsewhere, I've seen it suggested that the DUP are threatening May and not the government. If you lie down with dogs... Actually it probably explains the (St Vitus) Dancing Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snowychap Posted October 11, 2018 Share Posted October 11, 2018 The rest of the thread is worth a read. It pushes me to believe that the government don't want the public to know things because it's not good or, perhaps, much worse. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chindie Posted October 11, 2018 VT Supporter Share Posted October 11, 2018 Shock horror. Brexit's a pup and they all know it. But some aren't allowed to say. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bickster Posted October 11, 2018 Moderator Share Posted October 11, 2018 Not actually read it yet but I'm told no punches were pulled, he's quite damning Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StefanAVFC Posted October 11, 2018 Share Posted October 11, 2018 Grumble grumble leftie university lecturers grumble grumble leftie students Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Enda Posted October 11, 2018 Share Posted October 11, 2018 This week I talked to an Estonian economist. We were chatting about job opportunities and all that. Having earned his PhD at a top top place in America, he mentioned his preference for English-speaking countries. I mentioned the UK, I mentioned Villa, I mentioned Warwick nearby. He said "Yeah, pity about Brexit though." I said "But we have PhDs and command good salaries, even without free movement we'll have no problems getting visas." He said "Yes, but 'Britain has had enough of experts'... we may be PhDs but we're not allowed be experts!" We had a chuckle. So this sentence will annoy some of you, but might put things in context: Irish and Estonians are literally laughing at the UK. Despite your excellent universities, we wouldn't want to move there because of the absolute state of your politics. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blandy Posted October 11, 2018 Author Moderator Share Posted October 11, 2018 1 minute ago, Enda said: Irish and Estonians are literally laughing at the UK. Despite your excellent universities, we wouldn't want to move there because of the absolute state of your politics There's always Americ....er, there's always Austral....Canada... cold though...um... New Zealand! Perfect...oh, you can't buy property to live in?...cripes, the numpties are really screwing you guys up. I guess you'll cope, Enda. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Enda Posted October 11, 2018 Share Posted October 11, 2018 3 minutes ago, blandy said: There's always Americ....er, there's always Austral....Canada... cold though...um... New Zealand! Perfect...oh, you can't buy property to live in?...cripes, the numpties are really screwing you guys up. I guess you'll cope, Enda. I'm working in the US and happy here but if I was gonna move across the ocean Ireland has far less chavs than Brum Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ml1dch Posted October 11, 2018 Share Posted October 11, 2018 1 hour ago, bickster said: Not actually read it yet but I'm told no punches were pulled, he's quite damning I got through about four fifths earlier and then work finished. There's nothing new, but it's as good as you'd expect. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LondonLax Posted October 11, 2018 Share Posted October 11, 2018 Can someone clarify something for me? The EU has a regulation that free movement of people has a restriction that requires a foreign citizen to have obtained a job within three months or they effectively become in illegal migrants and have to leave the country. It is often said that the UK has chosen not to enforce the 3 month time limit but I have often seen the counter point made that it would need some sort of national database of the population like the ‘personal number’ the Swedes have or an ID card like the Labour government proposed a few years back. Non EU citizens get a visa that can expire but I don’t think it would be possible to do the same for an EU citizen who are supposed to enjoy visaless travel within the EU. Would there be a way then for the UK government to identify overstayers, track them down and enforce the EU regulation on 3 months of free movement without requiring an ID card type system? Is there a system other EU countries use that could have worked for the UK? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisp65 Posted October 11, 2018 Share Posted October 11, 2018 If they aren't rich, don't have a job and don't get handed benefits without proper procedure, why would we need to be able to identify them? Unless the suggestion is that a million homeless on our streets are Spanish? I don't see that around here. Or, unless the suggestion is that they fuel a black economy? If that's the case, I.D. isn't going to stop that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bickster Posted October 11, 2018 Moderator Share Posted October 11, 2018 16 minutes ago, LondonLax said: Would there be a way then for the UK government to identify overstayers, track them down and enforce the EU regulation on 3 months of free movement without requiring an ID card type system? Is there a system other EU countries use that could have worked for the UK? Why would they want to? The economy needed them, still does really Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LondonLax Posted October 11, 2018 Share Posted October 11, 2018 5 minutes ago, bickster said: Why would they want to? The economy needed them, still does really Well that is a different discussion. I'm interested in understanding how the mechanics of it would work as I get the impression control of EU migration is a very important aspect for a number of Brexit voters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snowychap Posted October 11, 2018 Share Posted October 11, 2018 (edited) 31 minutes ago, LondonLax said: Can someone clarify something for me? The EU has a regulation that free movement of people has a restriction that requires a foreign citizen to have obtained a job within three months or they effectively become in illegal migrants and have to leave the country. It is often said that the UK has chosen not to enforce the 3 month time limit but I have often seen the counter point made that it would need some sort of national database of the population like the ‘personal number’ the Swedes have or an ID card like the Labour government proposed a few years back. Non EU citizens get a visa that can expire but I don’t think it would be possible to do the same for an EU citizen who are supposed to enjoy visaless travel within the EU. Would there be a way then for the UK government to identify overstayers, track them down and enforce the EU regulation on 3 months of free movement without requiring an ID card type system? Is there a system other EU countries use that could have worked for the UK? I think it comes down to the reasons permitted for a host country to terminate the residence of EU citizens. It can be for a number of reasons, one of which is about becoming an unreasonable burden on the social security system of the member state. The application for or continued need for that assistance would be known by the UK government through the benefits or tax credit system. Otherwise, the other citizens would be economically inactive but self-sufficient and thus, I;d guess, able to reside for an unspecified length of time other considerations (criminal proceedings, &c.) notwithstanding. Edited October 11, 2018 by snowychap 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snowychap Posted October 11, 2018 Share Posted October 11, 2018 (edited) I guess also that now 'right to...' tests appear to have been unfortunately farmed out to all and sundry, e.g. landlords, then this might also be a trigger point at which the eligibility could/would be tested? I'm not advocating this, btw. Edited October 11, 2018 by snowychap Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LondonLax Posted October 11, 2018 Share Posted October 11, 2018 1 minute ago, snowychap said: I think it comes down to the reasons permitted for a host country to terminate the residence of EU citizens. It can be for a number of reasons, one of which is about becoming an unreasonable burden on the social security system of the member state. The application for or continued need for that assistance would be known by the UK government through the benefits or tax credit system. Otherwise, the other citizens would be economically inactive but self-sufficient and thus, I;d guess, able to reside for an unspecified length of time other considerations (criminal proceedings, &c.) notwithstanding. Yes that is logical. It makes sense to not impose an artificial time limit on it but instead trigger the regulation if the EU citizen is taking from the economy rather than contributing. Isn't there a time restriction on EU migrants being able to access government benefits of something like 12 months? If that is correct how does that 12 months get tracked (i.e. if you head home for a day and then return does the 12 months reset?) Following on from that could the UK ask an EU citizen to leave the country when they apply for government benefits after being in the country for 12 months? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snowychap Posted October 11, 2018 Share Posted October 11, 2018 Just now, LondonLax said: Yes that is logical. It makes sense to not impose an artificial time limit on it but instead trigger the regulation if the EU citizen is taking from the economy rather than contributing. Isn't there a time restriction on EU migrants being able to access government benefits of something like 12 months? If that is correct how does that 12 months get tracked (i.e. if you head home for a day and then return does the 12 months reset?) Following on from that could the UK ask an EU citizen to leave the country when they apply for government benefits after being in the country for 12 months? I don't know is the honest answer. Is there a time limit of 12 months? If there were any kind of time limit then it would depend on what 'heading home' meant, I'd have thought. Did it mean ceasing to reside - in which case I'd suggest that would mean losing access to any social assistance - or temporarily going abroad - which would mean that nothing changed. These are just my thoughts though and are not meant to represent the actual/legal position. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HanoiVillan Posted October 11, 2018 Share Posted October 11, 2018 10 hours ago, snowychap said: The rest of the thread is worth a read. It pushes me to believe that the government don't want the public to know things because it's not good or, perhaps, much worse. In further evidence of people pretending not to know things about road haulage: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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