The now-enacted will of (some of) the people

[brommy]

44 minutes ago, Chindie said:

You can want the UK to succeed, and also look forward to schadenfreude. Like I do.

I certainly don't want the UK to fail. I live here. I happen to think any Leave result is one that leaves us to some extent worse off. Because that's true. Hopefully we get the least worse off result possible. I happen to think that won't happen but I can hope.

And when we are all worse off, I can still look forward to the schadenfreude. Things will be shittier, for me included, but I can enjoy those begging for that outcome suffering too.

Never the less I'd prefer no schadenfreude and the UK succeeding.

Unfortunately my preferred outcome isn't happening, so I'm banking on mitigating the damage and making up the difference in gammon tears.

Lol! Now your avatar makes sense! 

[limpid]

1 hour ago, brommy said:

I hope that’s true. Whether supporting the majority decision or not, it’s better for the UK to get the best deal possible, given the circumstances of honouring the democratic majority. For example, as an active Labour and CND member in my late teens and early twenties and as someone who has never voted Tory in any national or local election in my life, I have always wanted each government to succeed; for the good of the UK, for the good of my family and for the good of democracy.

What if the best deal possible, given the circumstances of honouring the democratic majority in a non-binding referendum is for us not to leave?

Do we have a representative democracy, or mob rule?

[brommy]

1 minute ago, limpid said:

What if the best deal possible, given the circumstances of honouring the democratic majority in a non-binding referendum is for us not to leave?

Do we have a representative democracy, or mob rule?

Is it practical to have an in/out vote every couple of years?

[limpid]

1 minute ago, brommy said:

Is it practical to have an in/out vote every couple of years?

Absolutely not. We have a representative democracy. We vote for MPs and MEPs every few years and it's for them to decide these things. We should never have had a referendum, binding or not.

[brommy]

5 minutes ago, limpid said:

Absolutely not. We have a representative democracy. We vote for MPs and MEPs every few years and it's for them to decide these things. We should never have had a referendum, binding or not.

That’s an arguable case. Now that the genie is too big to go back in the bottle, I can’t see a majority of MP’s overturning the majority will of the UK. Perhaps when or if a deal is agreed there is a majority public will to reject it, there will be a majority public will to have another referendum. Currently, there is no sign of such.

[bickster]

35 minutes ago, brommy said:

That’s an arguable case. Now that the genie is too big to go back in the bottle, I can’t see a majority of MP’s overturning the majority will of the UK. Perhaps when or if a deal is agreed there is a majority public will to reject it, there will be a majority public will to have another referendum. Currently, there is no sign of such.

Even if its not the current "Will of the People", the WotP argument is utter nonsense. 

[brommy]

5 minutes ago, bickster said:

Even if its not the current "Will of the People", the WotP argument is utter nonsense. 

Possibly. We should have a referendum to decide. 

[a m ole]

I do wonder, had we had a referendum to decide if we should have a referendum, if the WotP would have been yes to having a referendum. I think not.

[bickster]

28 minutes ago, brommy said:

Possibly. We should have a referendum to decide. 

Well logically yes, just like a night on the piss, once you break the seal...

[PompeyVillan]

Thing is, we already know Brexit dogma decrees that truth is only mild inconvenience and a minor consideration. We'll see Chemical Ali levels of denial, that everything is going great and those that are suffering or claim to care about suffering are unpatriotic. 

I don't expect much regret. I think all we'll see is more finger pointing, this time I think we will see blame of past immigration for a few years. Then the poor and scroungers will be demonised some more for not doing the jobs immigrants used to do. Then we'll blame the politicians that have failed to live up to the spirit of Brexit. 

 

 

[ROTTERDAM1982]

The referendum was the only true democratic vote in the last 30 years, the democratic process will /should be carried out, otherwise the consequences of a failure to listen to the electorate will lead to more extremism.

The EU will only continue as long as the Germans want it to, and it benefits them, the next German leader will be crucial to the future of the EU. I think it is bound to fail, but that is my opinion, I see no reason , unless the EU is particularly vindictive, which I don't think will happen, why Brexit will be a disaster.

Time will tell

[snowychap]

5 minutes ago, ROTTERDAM1982 said:

The referendum was the only true democratic vote in the last 30 years

You wot?

[bickster]

6 minutes ago, ROTTERDAM1982 said:

The referendum was the only true democratic vote in the last 30 years, the democratic process will /should be carried out, otherwise the consequences of a failure to listen to the electorate will lead to more extremism.

1

Nothing could be further from the truth

[chrisp65]

34 minutes ago, ROTTERDAM1982 said:

The referendum was the only true democratic vote in the last 30 years

I'm guessing you decided to start with a joke?

Election fraud and constant blatant lies, a tory power struggle gone horribly wrong.

Weird you could think that was the only true piece of democracy since the 1980's? 

I would genuinely like to see your workings out.

[ROTTERDAM1982]

Selective views , Labour are as divided as the Tories, McD and JC are incredibly anti EU, as was Benn and I think Skinner.

The vote was put to the people, do you want to leave the EU, more than 50% said yes, both sides lied, all politicians lie, get over it.

[Chindie]

I'm sure had Remain won in a similar fashion the Leave vote would have got over it and shut up.

[chrisp65]

37 minutes ago, ROTTERDAM1982 said:

Selective views , Labour are as divided as the Tories, McD and JC are incredibly anti EU, as was Benn and I think Skinner.

The vote was put to the people, do you want to leave the EU, more than 50% said yes, both sides lied, all politicians lie, get over it.

 

How is 'both sides lied, get over it' the only true democratic vote since the 1980's? 

 

[ml1dch]

1 hour ago, ROTTERDAM1982 said:

I see no reason

I've taken the liberty of removing all the bits of your post which are wrong.

[bickster]

57 minutes ago, ROTTERDAM1982 said:

Selective views , Labour are as divided as the Tories, McD and JC are incredibly anti EU, as was Benn and I think Skinner.

The vote was put to the people, do you want to leave the EU, more than 50% said yes, both sides lied, all politicians lie, get over it.

Only one side committed massive election fraud

Only one side benefitted from wrong illegal advice from the Election Commission

Also, the demographics have completely changed since the vote. Nearly 1.6 million voters in the original referendum will be dead by the end of March 2019 and an additional 1.4 million voters will have come of age

 

[ROTTERDAM1982]

Massive election fraud........really?

You carry on accepting financing the luxury lifestyles of the EU officials ,I won't call them politicians, check out the pension liabilities of retired EU officials and what it will be in 10 years time  check out the AVERAGE EU pension, and then tell me you have been duped.

And then go and tell the Greeks how good the EU is.

Remainers have a desperate neediness about them to be seen to be right, even to the point where they hope that this country fails when we leave,   the constant assumption that there is an intellectual discrepancy between Remainers and Leavers is quite tiresome and boring to be frank.