ml1dch Posted March 19, 2018 Share Posted March 19, 2018 9 minutes ago, Awol said: It won’t please the hard-right Tories but that hitting that sweet spot of allowing UK to sign other deals while still having full single market access is the target they shot for and hit. If they’d gone in saying that was all they wanted it’s debatable whether the EU would have agreed it at all. They couldn't give the smallest toss who we speak to during that time. The Commission know full well that we won't be able to agree anything with anybody until the full details of our future relationship with the EU are known. Until it's agreed how and to what extent we are going to diverge then we have nothing to put on the table. When DFDS Fox sits down with his American / Chinese / Nigerian counterparts, what can he negotiate over? They say (for example) "are you going to relax your agricultural standards to open your market up for us?", we say "dunno, maybe, it all sort of depends". As you suggest, it's nice to let the other side think they've got a win. Particularly when it doesn't actually change anything. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StefanAVFC Posted March 19, 2018 Share Posted March 19, 2018 I don't understand how this can be heralded as anything other than a fudge when Ireland isn't sorted or even close to being sorted. Maybe they should follow JRM's advice and leave the single market too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Awol Posted March 19, 2018 Share Posted March 19, 2018 29 minutes ago, StefanAVFC said: I don't understand how this can be heralded as anything other than a fudge when Ireland isn't sorted or even close to being sorted. Maybe they should follow JRM's advice and leave the single market too. The border can’t be agreed until the customs arrangements required for it are known. That’s why the trade talks always had to happen in parallel to sort it out. They’ve now fudged a form of words that the EU can point Dublin towards and say “look, we put Ireland up front, as you asked.” It suited Brussels to have the border issue as an upfront red-line with citizens rights because both gave cover to their one true concern, how much money they could wrench out of the UK. They didn’t want to talk trade deals until the money was agreed because that would give the UK too much leverage in talks. Now they’ve got the agreement on cash the EU is happy to fudge the border issue and move on to trade talks where it can actually be sorted out. It was always about getting an agreement on the UK’s money first and decoupling it from trade arrangements, the rest are 2nd or 3rd order issues for Brussels. (imo) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blandy Posted March 19, 2018 Author Moderator Share Posted March 19, 2018 Quote Since the referendum, the Government have made at least seven major promises about the transition period. Today’s draft agreement with the EU shows these promises have all now been broken, and that all transition does is move us from being a rule maker to a rule taker. The seven promises that were made were: A transition period will be about ‘implementing’ the future relationship, not negotiating it The UK will not pay money to the EU after March 2019 The UK will not have to abide by EU rules during transition The UK will ‘take back control’ of fisheries policy Free movement will end in March 2019 The UK will have new trade deals ready to come into force on 29 March 2019 The implementation period would last for two years and should not be time limited https://www.open-britain.co.uk/background_briefing_seven_broken_promises_on_transition Follow the link for details as to who, and how etc. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snowychap Posted March 19, 2018 Share Posted March 19, 2018 (edited) This transition period begins on the day after we have left the EU, does it? And goes on to the end of December 2010. Doesn't seem any particular incentive to settle on a future relationship before 29th March 2019. And if it's not settled by that date, doesn't that make any vote in Parliament on the final deal anything but a meaningful vote? Not sure the citizens' rights thing is any more settled than it was before - all that appears to have happened is the concession about those who arrive during the transition period which just means that there are going to be other people (i.e. other than those already here) who also haven't got a clue about what rights they will be getting, when and how. Edit: Maybe I ought to have said, can't be certain rather than haven't got a clue. Edit 2: Actually, having now read some of the new draft agreement (with added colours), it would appear that all of the citizens' rights stuff that is in there is in green (agreed at negotiatiors' level). That includes the stuff about processes which don't seem to be in line with what we were saying we were intending to implement for this new 'settled status'. Edited March 19, 2018 by snowychap Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LondonLax Posted March 19, 2018 Share Posted March 19, 2018 It looks like the can has been booted down the road. See everyone in 2 years to go through it all again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LondonLax Posted March 19, 2018 Share Posted March 19, 2018 7 hours ago, Chindie said: Hailed as a victory over evil Brussels, and cough through/ignore/lie about all the ways it isn't. Downing Street will be pleased and will remember the good press. Their readers below the line are not buying it though. If you are pissing off Daily Mail readers you must be doing something right Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snowychap Posted March 20, 2018 Share Posted March 20, 2018 A BBC headline on its website of Prices could fall by 1.2% after Brexit becomes a headline of Prices could fall after Brexit 'if UK abolishes tariffs' when you click through on to the article written by Kamal Ahmed. The article's about an IFS report. The first line of the article of the article then says: Quote Consumers could see prices fall by up to 1.2% if Britain were to abolish all tariffs once it has left the European Union, a report says. It also goes on to say that the IFS warns that any gains would be small and were based on 'optimistic' assumptions and that whilst abolishing all tariffs could have additional economic benefits in the long run they could be very damaging for some UK industries in the short run. What proportion of people who read the headline would make it through to the article headline and then go on to read through the article? Well done, BBC, another winner. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peterms Posted March 20, 2018 Share Posted March 20, 2018 I don't know which story to believe. This? Quote Jacob Rees-Mogg to fling fish from trawler on Thames in protest for fishermen 'betrayed' by May's Brexit deal Or this? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blandy Posted March 20, 2018 Author Moderator Share Posted March 20, 2018 4 hours ago, peterms said: I don't know which story to believe. This? Or this? Kippers everywhere 1 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snowychap Posted March 20, 2018 Share Posted March 20, 2018 6 hours ago, snowychap said: Well done, BBC, another winner. I see they've changed both headlines now: to 'Little price impact' from axing EU tariffs (I think it's all tariffs not EU tariffs) and Brexit boost for consumers short-lived says IFS (again that wouldn't appear to be what they're saying). Slightly better but still poor stuff. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevo985 Posted March 20, 2018 VT Supporter Share Posted March 20, 2018 So it's basically as we predicted? It will just mean we have to follow the EU's rules but no longer get an input into making them? Brilliant. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blandy Posted March 20, 2018 Author Moderator Share Posted March 20, 2018 Gibraltar is effectively sacrificed, as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chindie Posted March 20, 2018 VT Supporter Share Posted March 20, 2018 Northern Ireland might realise London doesn't give a **** about them as well. Almost certainly to their benefit in many ways. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amsterdam_Neil_D Posted March 20, 2018 Share Posted March 20, 2018 Is there anyway from where they are now to actual full detachment where the UK negotiating team could come out of this (Brexit) with their heads held high ? ( Is it at all salvageable is my question ? I have a sneaky feeling they think they are doing really well you see. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LondonLax Posted March 20, 2018 Share Posted March 20, 2018 1 minute ago, Amsterdam_Neil_D said: Is there anyway from where they are now to actual full detachment where the UK negotiating team could come out of this (Brexit) with their heads held high ? ( Is it at all salvageable is my question ? I have a sneaky feeling they think they are doing really well you see. It has never been possible for any UK government to come out of the EU in a better position then it is in now. Leaving the worlds largest trading block will result in accepting pain for ideological reasons. The question left is how much pain is the UK (and its voters) willing to bare for this ideology? If the result of all this is the UK ends up with this transition phase becoming permanent (i.e. the Norway option) it will have gotten out as lightly as possible. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chindie Posted March 20, 2018 VT Supporter Share Posted March 20, 2018 On the plus side the government was defeated in the Lords today over the Euratom withdrawal. An amendment was allowed that meant if no international agreements have been reached by the date of exit, the withdrawal from Euratom is paused. Withdrawing from Euratom being one of the more completely dopey things Brexiteers didn't realise they wanted. No doubt the Commons will like the amendment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisp65 Posted March 20, 2018 Share Posted March 20, 2018 1 hour ago, Amsterdam_Neil_D said: Is there anyway from where they are now to actual full detachment where the UK negotiating team could come out of this (Brexit) with their heads held high ? It's worth remembering that this is existential for the EU. If they allow the UK a deal where we are not clearly worse off, why would any other country remain in the EU? 3 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peterms Posted March 21, 2018 Share Posted March 21, 2018 Proud democratic protest thwarted by bovine bureaucrats Quote ...Rees-Mogg...was unable to board...as the vessel had failed to request permission to land... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blandy Posted March 21, 2018 Author Moderator Share Posted March 21, 2018 54 minutes ago, peterms said: Proud democratic protest thwarted by bovine bureaucrats "Radio presenter Nigel Farage, a former leader of Ukip, later boarded the boat at Westminster Pier. He threw fish" Stay classy Nige Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts